2024 Baseball Hall of Fame Tracker

[FrankWakefield]

Sorry, guys. There's too much contrariness and 20th century in me for me, otherwise I could have refrained from posting...

I saw Sheffield play, I don't think he's HOF caliber, ditto for Andruw Jones (although he could run down stuff in the outfield).

Helton should be in. And A-Rod should, in my opinion. And I can accept Billy Wagner getting in. And just maybe, Beltran.

Seems to me that virtually all of the HOFers who were in when I was a kid, were guys deserving to me in. But I feel like players get voted in now because there is a perception that someone should be going in most all the time.

Larry Yount... he may be the answer. I know I'm in the minority about so many modern players getting in, so maybe the extreme at the opposite end of the my thinking on the HOF spectrum would work. Just vote EVERYONE in who makes it to the majors, and gets into a game. Larry gets in (I'm not hating on him, he could pitch fairly well), and everyone else who gets in a ML game.

Ya'll can get back to talking 21st century HOF stuff. Some of those guys you're discussing will get in. But should they?

[packs]

Andruw Jones is getting talked about but he was not very good. He was a great fielding centerfielder for a decade but more than anything else he is a 254 career hitter who didn't hit 500 home runs. His 254 average would put him one point above Ray Schalk as the lowest average among HOFers .

[butchie_t]

All I know is Helton is finally gonna get his due. After watching him in Colorado Springs with the brief stint in AAA and then following his 17 years in MLB with the Rockies. This fan is happy to see him finally get in to the HOF.

After that, cool for everyone else that makes it.

I also saw Billy Wagner during his time with Tucson. That dude could bring it! He was not a reliever at that point in his career, he was in the rotation. The way the ball popped in the catchers glove when he threw. Awesome to hear.

B.T.

[molenick]

Andruw Jones being in or not rests entirely on how much you value defense in center field (and how much you believe in defensive metrics). Among center fielders, he is first in dWAR and 51st in oWAR (between Mike Cameron and Clyde Milan). Together that makes him the eleventh best center fielder according to Baseball Reference, ahead of most of the center fielders in the Hall. For me, he is one of those people who I am not clamoring to be in, but if he gets in, it would not cheapen the Hall.

[packs]

He won 10 straight gold gloves but didn't win another after his 30th birthday.

I understand the metrics and where they place him, but I don't believe you can be the 11th best centerfielder of all time when your career was more or less over at 30 and you failed to win an MVP.

For comparisons sake, Johan Santana's career was also more or less over at 30 but he won a Triple Crown and two Cy Youngs. Still won't be enough to get him in.

[z28jd]

I'd love to see Helton just miss again. He's lost more votes than he has gained from returning voters so far, down -1, which makes it hard to pick up any ground. He's a fringe candidate for me based on his career, but I don't like rewarding a habitual drunk driver. I'd be fine making him wait the ten years if he only had one DUI, but once he got the second and left the scene of an accident too, I had zero respect for him.

People are out here not voting for Vizquel because of a clubhouse incident that affected one person, or Andruw Jones because of his spousal abuse, which I'm completely fine with in both cases. I wouldn't vote for either of them for those reasons. If they were slam dunk cases for the HOF, then I'd withhold a vote for 2-3 years, or one year like people did with Roberto Alomar. Yet people are fine with Helton getting caught twice on the road drunk. Who knows how many times he just risked lives of everyone else around him those days. It's probably in the hundreds judging by the time gap alone.

Please don't defend Helton's actions either, because I won't ever see his side or your side of it. He made nine figures in salary during his career, he could have had a personal driver 24/7. That makes it even worse, but it's not even something specific to him. I have literally one relative out of a huge family with one DUI and the best thing I can say about what they did is that they didn't hurt anyone else with their own accident. Don't drive and drive ever or stand up for someone who does.

[The Detroit Collector]

Beltre is a sure thing.
I actually don't think Mauer gets in. It took Piazza 4 years and the stats are similar aside from home runs.
Helton I would say does get in.

[Svabinsky78]

I am honestly shocked at how strongly Mauer is tracking. To me, at best, he is borderline, no way no how a first ballot.

Beltre....a lock. Just wondering at this point what % he'll land at. Glad I picked up his Savannah Sand Gnats minor league cards when I did. The two people that left Beltre off their ballots should have their voting privileges revoked.

Helton deserves it. Fantastic player. The Coors argument is way overblown.

Jones should be in. Yeah the second half of his career was abysmal, like Miggy's last five years, but the first 10 years, he was a monster of a player. I don't know, at almost 63 overall WAR, 430 HRs, 2000 hits, and 10 gold gloves (by most people's accounts, legitimately owning that position for those ten years), that to me is HOF worthy.

Beltran should be in. Phenomenal player. That stupid garbage can incident.....way too overblown.

Wagner was phenomenal for a long time but closers typically don't get much love. Wonder how Kimbrel will eventually fare. He is in Wagner's territory imo.

Sheffield was a great player but he has the specter of PEDs hanging over him....then again, you have Piazza, Pudge, Bags, and most recently, Big Pappi already in....

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by z28jd

I'd love to see Helton just miss again. He's lost more votes than he has gained from returning voters so far, down -1, which makes it hard to pick up any ground. He's a fringe candidate for me based on his career, but I don't like rewarding a habitual drunk driver. I'd be fine making him wait the ten years if he only had one DUI, but once he got the second and left the scene of an accident too, I had zero respect for him.

People are out here not voting for Vizquel because of a clubhouse incident that affected one person, or Andruw Jones because of his spousal abuse, which I'm completely fine with in both cases. I wouldn't vote for either of them for those reasons. If they were slam dunk cases for the HOF, then I'd withhold a vote for 2-3 years, or one year like people did with Roberto Alomar. Yet people are fine with Helton getting caught twice on the road drunk. Who knows how many times he just risked lives of everyone else around him those days. It's probably in the hundreds judging by the time gap alone.

Please don't defend Helton's actions either, because I won't ever see his side or your side of it. He made nine figures in salary during his career, he could have had a personal driver 24/7. That makes it even worse, but it's not even something specific to him. I have literally one relative out of a huge family with one DUI and the best thing I can say about what they did is that they didn't hurt anyone else with their own accident. Don't drive and drive ever or stand up for someone who does.

I absolutely love your stance on drunk driving. The HOF is a complete joke on many levels. I would still like to visit it someday.

[packs]

I'm not sure I see what others see in Billy Wagner. Capable closer, yes. But what makes him a HOFer? Because he was decent for a while?

There are eight relief pitchers in the HOF. In the last twenty years Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman, Dennis Eckersly, Goose Gossage, Bruce Sutter and Lee Smith were elected.

Gossage pitched twice as many innings as Wagner. Eckersly won an MVP and Cy Young as closer, Sutter won a Cy Young, while Smith, Hoffman and Rivera all held the all time saves mark for a period of time. What does Billy Wagner bring to the table that he'd be in the same company?

And does all that much really separate Billy Wagner and Jonathan Papelbon? I don't think anyone would put Papelbon in.