Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

The opening/no opening hadn’t even occurred to me. Sure enough, the team photo on my black pennant is glued to the front with no cutout. The cutout on the orange pennant looks completely “professional” - sharp edges and no overcut at the corners. I know there are other team photo pennants with the cutout. Maybe Domer has some insight into this variation in the manufacturing process?

I guess I’m going to need a Giants team photo with a bit of a border if I’m going to glue it from the back…

Most of the Trench picture pennants from the early 60s had cardboard pictures that were affixed with a larger rectangle of clear tape. The picture itself seemed to be about the same size as the cutout, and if it was put together sloppily you’d see gaps.

[Domer05]

In the early 1960s, Trench used a dye cutter to remove the rectangular portion of the picture window. They made so many photo pennants, this machine was a worthwhile investment. As Greg noted, they typically used a photo printed on a cardstock-like paper that was affixed to the back with a pre-cut, rectangular clear tape. Additionally, their photos were, at least in the early 1960s, printed exclusively for their use; and bore their name and/or Sportservice's name on the reverse, along with a team roster/caption.

After 1962, Trench's photo backs no longer bore their name. By the 1970s, they occasionally used post cards, supplied by other vendors, for the photo.

Other manufacturers of course dabbled in photo pennants in the 1960s. ASCO's photos often came from post cards, supplied by other vendors. WGN made a few photo pennants as well; however, they got a bit lazy: they just stapled the photo to the pennant's front-side, thereby bypassing any need to cut the window or tape the pennant. And at least one maker actually screen printed the image of the team photo on to the felt, using half-tones--a printing technique actually pioneered by The Reproduction Co. back in the 1910s. See, e.g., this 1960 NL champs pennant....

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

In the early 1960s, Trench used a dye cutter to remove the rectangular portion of the picture window. They made so many photo pennants, this machine was a worthwhile investment. As Greg noted, they typically used a photo printed on a cardstock-like paper that was affixed to the back with a pre-cut, rectangular clear tape. Additionally, their photos were, at least in the early 1960s, printed exclusively for their use; and bore their name and/or Sportservice's name on the reverse, along with a team roster/caption.

After 1962, Trench's photo backs no longer bore their name. By the 1970s, they occasionally used post cards, supplied by other vendors, for the photo.

Other manufacturers of course dabbled in photo pennants in the 1960s. ASCO's photos often came from post cards, supplied by other vendors. WGN made a few photo pennants as well; however, they got a bit lazy: they just stapled the photo to the pennant's front-side, thereby bypassing any need to cut the window or tape the pennant. And at least one maker actually screen printed the image of the team photo on to the felt, using half-tones--a printing technique actually pioneered by The Reproduction Co. back in the 1910s. See, e.g., this 1960 NL champs pennant....

Good stuff, Kyle … I’ll just add that Keezer dabbled in picture pennants a bit just for the Red Sox.

[thetahat]

Ugh

[perezfan]

I knew someone would fall for it. But to that extent? Shame... Sure wish we could still message other people on eBay (like in the good old days!)

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Ugh

What’s the “ugh”? Fake? Too much? You had one you sold for 100 bucks?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

What’s the “ugh”? Fake? Too much? You had one you sold for 100 bucks?

Just two problems with it....

Mitchell and Ness

We discussed it earlier in this thread (about 3 weeks or so ago). Severely aged to look old.... and outside of the spine, tassels, size and graphics all being wrong, it's a great piece!

[UKCardGuy]

Thanks for pointing it out guys. As a learning exercise, I tried to compare the ebay fake to past listings with big auction companies:

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c...a/707-19598.s#

https://lelands.com/bids/1918-boston-red-sox-pennant

I think I can spot the following discrepancies:

• The spin is a thick spin rather than the thin one that should be there
• There shouldn't be any "1918" on the pennant
• The lines on the 4 bases aren't right. They should have 2 lines diaganal down and 1 diaganal across not a "+".
• The crossed bats don't have the right detail (specifically where the bats cross each other)
• The lines in the floral pattern around the circles are missing and the floral pattern is the wrong shape.
• The white of the graphics is grainy rather than solid white
• It's hard to tell from the photos but the fabric looks too smooth on the fake one

I was going to mention the tassels are white instead of red but I'm pretty sure that the pennant manufacturers used multiple colors for tassels based on the materials they had available.

Have I missed anything?

By comparison are these listings legit?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255378459443
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294201236387

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Just two problems with it....

Mitchell and Ness

We discussed it earlier in this thread (about 3 weeks or so ago). Severely aged to look old.... and outside of the spine, tassels, size and graphics all being wrong, it's a great piece!

I was going to say "Queue The Price is Right "bust" music"...But then I noticed the Mitchell & Ness version doesn't notate "1918".

Even so...Not sure I'd spend $4500 on a pennant that had such a good repro the average collector wouldn't know the difference. Good luck recouping your investment.