1921 Herpolsheimers graded w/o mark

Brian Van Horn · #1 11-24-2023, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve D

True, but if you read the top paragraph on the bottom-right of the Apr 15, 1921 ad, it says the following:

"...we have arranged with a prominent advertising concern to make up for us this set of photographs of baseball players in action." That, to me, indicates that they had sets specially made for them (Herpolsheimer's Dept Store). It would be logical that if the cards were made specially for them, the cards would have their name on them.

Steve

Steve,

It's a possibility, but more likely the two variables of the 1921 series of eighty were sold on site. Why miss an advertising opportunity in the second link after the season began?

robertsmithnocure · #2 11-24-2023, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

This is some desperate straw clutching. This narrative was illogical and nonsensical from the start, it is indefensible now. This is absurdly stupid lol

I totally agree. This an absolutely crazy thread.

ElCabron · #3 11-24-2023, 10:28 PM

Brian,

I have done business with you for decades. I may have missed the name of the super honest dealer that convinced you these were fake 25 years ago, but I�m also on the bandwagon with every single other collector and dealer who are trying to tell you these are real. I am as skeptical as they come. If you don�t believe that, search my name on this forum. I would respectfully like to suggest to you that I am as honest as the guy from 25 years ago, and if you don�t believe I am, please do not bid in my auctions in the future.

You are wrong here. We are all wrong sometimes. At this point, you�re making yourself look bad. You�d be wise to simply admit it and move on.

I think everyone can appreciate where you�re coming from. Fakes should ALWAYS be called out as fakes. But once the evidence overwhelmingly shows the they�re real, you have to adjust and accept they�re real. I hope you�ll consider this.

Brian Van Horn · #4 11-25-2023, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElCabron

Brian,

I have done business with you for decades. I may have missed the name of the super honest dealer that convinced you these were fake 25 years ago, but I�m also on the bandwagon with every single other collector and dealer who are trying to tell you these are real. I am as skeptical as they come. If you don�t believe that, search my name on this forum. I would respectfully like to suggest to you that I am as honest as the guy from 25 years ago, and if you don�t believe I am, please do not bid in my auctions in the future.

You are wrong here. We are all wrong sometimes. At this point, you�re making yourself look bad. You�d be wise to simply admit it and move on.

I think everyone can appreciate where you�re coming from. Fakes should ALWAYS be called out as fakes. But once the evidence overwhelmingly shows the they�re real, you have to adjust and accept they�re real. I hope you�ll consider this.

Ryan,

I know you're honest and I look forward to bidding in your future auctions.

Happy Holidays,

Brian

RCMcKenzie · #5 11-25-2023, 12:44 PM

Brian's questions prompted another collector to discover more information about the set, which is why debate is a good thing, not a bad thing.

It shows just how many cards were thrown away. How many sets did they order? 100? and parts of 2 sets made it.

brianp-beme · #6 11-25-2023, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Brian's questions prompted another collector to discover more information about the set, which is why debate is a good thing, not a bad thing.

I agree...because of this thread the vast majority of us know more about this set, and now we have convincing evidence on how these cards were distributed (those boy suits must have been butt ugly). To the logical mind knowledge is always a good thing. So thank you Brian for setting the wheels in motion.

Brian

Brian Van Horn · #7 11-25-2023, 01:07 PM

Thank you Aaron.

Brian Van Horn · #8 11-25-2023, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I agree...because of this thread the vast majority of us know more about this set, and now we have convincing evidence on how these cards were distributed (those boy suits must have been butt ugly). To the logical mind knowledge is always a good thing. So thank you Brian for setting the wheels in motion.

Brian

Brian,

Now, in 2034 a boy's suit from Herpolsheimer's with a tag on the neck on the inside of the back identifying Herpolsheimer's will be found with, believe it or not, Herpolsheimer cards in the moth holed breast pocket. Amazingly, the cards, which will be of different levels of wear will be collectible. A miracle! To summarize the finding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyp9fh-u4w8

G1911 · #9 11-25-2023, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Brian's questions prompted another collector to discover more information about the set, which is why debate is a good thing, not a bad thing.

It shows just how many cards were thrown away. How many sets did they order? 100? and parts of 2 sets made it.

I think we�ve learned survival rates for pre-war cards are incredibly low, I suspect well under 1% from the datasets. For example, using the printers record books and court testimony I have accounted for a minimum of 21,000,000 T225 series 1 cards printed. 25 subjects of equal printing = 840,000 of each produced, at least. I�d be surprised if there�s even 2,500 of each still around today. I�d project about 1 in 500 made it to 2023 for these. I�d think the 1920�s stuff wouldn�t be a lot better off, maybe a little.

RCMcKenzie · #10 11-25-2023, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

I think we�ve learned survival rates for pre-war cards are incredibly low, I suspect well under 1% from the datasets. For example, using the printers record books and court testimony I have accounted for a minimum of 21,000,000 T225 series 1 cards printed. 25 subjects of equal printing = 840,000 of each produced, at least. I�d be surprised if there�s even 2,500 of each still around today. I�d project about 1 in 500 made it to 2023 for these. I�d think the 1920�s stuff wouldn�t be a lot better off, maybe a little.

I think 1914 Cracker Jacks say 15 million were made and I think of those as difficult to find.

I was guessing 100 sets of 1921 Herpolsheimer because I thought they would hope to sell a suit a day for that Summer. It could be much higher like 500.

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