Hypothetical Question, could Ruth hit modern pitching

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by bnorth

and the modern AA player would have a batting average of 612 and hit 97 home runs off the same pitching Ruth faced.

Bullshit!

You guys honestly think just nobody alive in the 1920-30’s were in any way athletic? WTF?

There are young players today with some very minor training as youths that can compete at the highest levels of today’s game yet nobody from the past would have been able to compete.

Clown stuff!

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Bullshit!

You guys honestly think just nobody alive in the 1920-30’s were in any way athletic? WTF?

There are young players today with some very minor training as youths that can compete at the highest levels of today’s game yet nobody from the past would have been able to compete.

Clown stuff!

Nailed it!

[jakebeckleyoldeagleeye]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Nailed it!

Have news for you Lou Gehrig or Ted Kluszewski were naturally strong and would destroy these pretty boys that lift the weights and use the special wheaties. A cock strong guy as we used to call them always destroyed the pretty boy weight trainers.
I've spent 40 plus years working out and I've seen it time and time again. Debate it all you want but it's a fact.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by jakebeckleyoldeagleeye

Have news for you Lou Gehrig or Ted Kluszewski were naturally strong and would destroy these pretty boys that lift the weights and use the special wheaties. A cock strong guy as we used to call them always destroyed the pretty boy weight trainers.
I've spent 40 plus years working out and I've seen it time and time again. Debate it all you want but it's a fact.

The only weights I like are family sized packages of oreos, and my main exercise is running to the fridge for another ice cream...

And I agree with you

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's interesting how people's personalities and biases feed into how they answer the question or others like it.

Personally, I think baseball has probably evolved in terms of athleticism the same way as other sports. Jesse Owens and Paavo Nurmi probably would be average high school runners now based solely on their times. Can you imagine Bill Tilden against Roger Federer? Why would baseball be different?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's interesting how people's personalities and biases feed into how they answer the question or others like it.

What do you see as the personality traits that correlate with different answers?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

What do you see as the personality traits that correlate with different answers?

I think a large number of collectors, especially older ones, have a big nostalgia bias that comes through in the "in those days men were men" type of comments. I think people more attuned to tech, data, etc. more easily recognize the huge gap in athleticism 100 years brings about. For example.

[Centauri]

In the past, the best most elite athletes played baseball, whereas today football/basketball/even soccer take most of the best.

Ruth was elite at putting bat to ball with power. Those skills would translate just fine to today’s game.

[Snowman]

Babe Ruth swung a 50 oz bat in his early years, and later transitioned to 44 and 42 oz bats during his prime. The only reason that was possible is because he was facing slow pitching. Extremely slow pitching. You can watch old footage and clearly see him waiting on pitches as he sets his weight back in his stance and turns on balls with his large frame and as he swings a lamp post at a ball of leather.

But he was still the best hitter of that era. Could he hit fast pitching? I don't think we have any way of knowing. Some hitters can learn to hit faster pitching, but others can't. It's why some top prospects eventually fail at the big leagues. Some guys are absolute monsters at the plate when facing 88 to 92 mph pitching, but they reach the end of their limits after that and can't turn on 96+ mph pitches. If Ruth were alive today, he'd have to drop down to a 35 oz bat just to get it around in time. His entire swing would have to change. Could he do it? Possibly. But we'll never know. He prepared and trained for the world he lived in, and that was a very different world of baseball.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Personally, I think baseball has probably evolved in terms of athleticism the same way as other sports. Jesse Owens and Paavo Nurmi probably would be average high school runners now based solely on their times. Can you imagine Bill Tilden against Roger Federer? Why would baseball be different?

Note that I didn't pickup 1920s Babe Ruth and drop him in the 2020s, I move his birthday 100 years...

Roger Federer is only Roger Federer because of the bedrock of Bill Tilden, there is no reason to think that "new" Bill Tilden given the same bedrock of "old" Bill Tilden wouldn't be able to complete with Roger Federer.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Note that I didn't pickup 1920s Babe Ruth and drop him in the 2020s, I move his birthday 100 years...

Roger Federer is only Roger Federer because of the bedrock of Bill Tilden, there is no reason to think that "new" Bill Tilden given the same bedrock of "old" Bill Tilden wouldn't be able to complete with Roger Federer.

Right but you've changed the hypothetical. The hypothetical is you just beam the player into the present time.

[71buc]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's interesting how people's personalities and biases feed into how they answer the question or others like it.

Personally, I think baseball has probably evolved in terms of athleticism the same way as other sports. Jesse Owens and Paavo Nurmi probably would be average high school runners now based solely on their times. Can you imagine Bill Tilden against Roger Federer? Why would baseball be different?

I absolutely agree

[rhettyeakley]

I honestly don’t know who would struggle more…

1. The best from the past being transported today with all the modern advances and salary and computer/video help to adjust their game.

-or-

2. The best from today transported to 1920 and having to play in those conditions with only the technology available at the time with no IR and pitchers having to pitch complete games and little to no use of relief pitching.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I honestly don’t know who would struggle more…

1. The best from the past being transported today with all the modern advances and salary and computer/video help to adjust their game.

-or-

2. The best from today transported to 1920 and having to play in those conditions with only the technology available at the time with no IR and pitchers having to pitch complete games and little to no use of relief pitching.

Oh, now that some perspective is added... Could Roy Hobbs have hit modern day pitching?

Good call RY.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I honestly don’t know who would struggle more…

1. The best from the past being transported today with all the modern advances and salary and computer/video help to adjust their game.

-or-

2. The best from today transported to 1920 and having to play in those conditions with only the technology available at the time with no IR and pitchers having to pitch complete games and little to no use of relief pitching.

Today's AVERAGE player would melt under the strain of past conditions.

The AVERAGE player of the past could only do better today.

[CJinPA]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Today's AVERAGE player would melt under the strain of past conditions.

The AVERAGE player of the past could only do better today.

It sounds as if you're underestimating today's players - don't do that. Baseball today is a different game than it was in the say the 20's - 50's.

I've posted this in another thread but the pitchers of today would annihilate all but the very, very best in the old generations. The pitch shaping, velocity, and pinpoint precision of sliders, curves and changeups would blow yesteryear hitters out of the water - for a time. If they kept their mouths shut, the ramp-up for older players would take even longer!

I can only take what I hear from the Ryne Sandbergs, Mike Schmidt and John Kruks of the world during their broadcasts and see with my eyes. They all have stated during broadcasts or interviews that the evolution of MLB pitching since around 2010 has been astonishing. Schmidt himself said he'd struggle to perform like the superstar hitters of today.

I'll take their words for it and extrapolate that back to the 20's-50's. It's tough debate since we'll never know - but we can all see the game is different in so many ways - some would survive, I have no doubt but to what degree?

[bnorth]

I love these type of posts. It amazes me how people romanticize about their heroes. Todays players are JACKED and super athletic. Even the little guys are JACKED to the max. You ever see little bitty Jose Altuve without a shirt. He looks like the incredible hulk in miniature form.

The most jacked player from Ruths time would be WAY more out of shape than todays MLB benchwarmer. People are bigger, faster, and holly $hit insanely stronger now than 100 years ago.

What I see is a bunch of people that love their favorite player and are mad people do not think he would still be the greatest if playing now. Babe Ruth was the greatest of his era without question. If in his absolute prime he was magically transported to now. He would b e considered so out of shape he wouldn't even be in the best shape on a lot of beer league softball teams.

[packs]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I love these type of posts. It amazes me how people romanticize about their heroes. Todays players are JACKED and super athletic. Even the little guys are JACKED to the max. You ever see little bitty Jose Altuve without a shirt. He looks like the incredible hulk in miniature form.

The most jacked player from Ruths time would be WAY more out of shape than todays MLB benchwarmer. People are bigger, faster, and holly $hit insanely stronger now than 100 years ago.

What I see is a bunch of people that love their favorite player and are mad people do not think he would still be the greatest if playing now. Babe Ruth was the greatest of his era without question. If in his absolute prime he was magically transported to now. He would b e considered so out of shape he wouldn't even be in the best shape on a lot of beer league softball teams.

This is just simply not true. Ruth was hitting in old stadiums and he was outhitting the entire league. No one had ever done that before and it wasn't just because Ruth was "jacked". He had supreme technique and supreme coordination.

You can't shake those skills. They are immediately transferrable in any time. He would be killing pitching today and probably hitting over a thousand home runs in tiny parks.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by packs

This is just simply not true. Ruth was hitting in old stadiums and he was outhitting the entire league. No one had ever done that before and it wasn't just because Ruth was "jacked". He had supreme technique and supreme coordination.

You can't shake those skills. They are immediately transferrable in any time. He would be killing pitching today and probably hitting over a thousand home runs in tiny parks.

LOL, Ruth outhitting the league is hilarious. He changed the game for sure by being the FIRST big homerun hitter. As soon as the game changed because of him there was several others hitting big homerun totals. He was just the first and not some super human outhitting the league.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by bnorth

You ever see little bitty Jose Altuve without a shirt

Only when he's not wearing a buzzer

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I love these type of posts. It amazes me how people romanticize about their heroes. Todays players are JACKED and super athletic. Even the little guys are JACKED to the max. You ever see little bitty Jose Altuve without a shirt. He looks like the incredible hulk in miniature form.

The most jacked player from Ruths time would be WAY more out of shape than todays MLB benchwarmer. People are bigger, faster, and holly $hit insanely stronger now than 100 years ago.

What I see is a bunch of people that love their favorite player and are mad people do not think he would still be the greatest if playing now. Babe Ruth was the greatest of his era without question. If in his absolute prime he was magically transported to now. He would b e considered so out of shape he wouldn't even be in the best shape on a lot of beer league softball teams.

So please explain how the Splendid Splinter, Ted Williams, who wasn't ripped or jacked could have hit a baseball over 500 feet to a painted seat in Fenway, and nobody else on the Red Sox, including super strong Big Pappi has even come close. Baseball has always been the "everyman" sport. Hitting has always been about load, swing path, and timing . . . not brute strength.

And your assessment of Babe Ruth in today's era is laughable. I suppose Satchel Paige couldn't have pitched in the majors today either, even though he had a heater so fast that he was known for sitting his outfield down from time to time, and pitching the entire inning without them.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by robw1959

So please explain how the Splendid Splinter, Ted Williams, who wasn't ripped or jacked could have hit a baseball over 500 feet to a painted seat in Fenway, and nobody else on the Red Sox, including super strong Big Pappi has even come close. Baseball has always been the "everyman" sport. Hitting has always been about load, swing path, and timing . . . not brute strength.

And your assessment of Babe Ruth in today's era is laughable. I suppose Satchel Paige couldn't have pitched in the majors today either, even though he had a heater so fast that he was known for sitting his outfield down from time to time, and pitching the entire inning without them.

You might want to actually check out how big Ted Williams was.

Oh my, Mr Paige doing that was more of an example of how poor his competition actually was during those exhibitions. To be clear there is zero chance Babe Ruth could magically appear and not look absolutely foolish against todays best pitchers.

Now if Mr Ruth was born 30 years ago and had all the benefits of todays training, food, supplements, and ate the horse meat he would still be one of the best to ever play.

The question was if Babe Ruth was transported to todays game could he hit. Not if he was afforded all the benefits of todays technology/training could he hit.