Hypothetical Question, could Ruth hit modern pitching

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by bandrus1

Ruth, time traveled in his prime directly today couldn't make a AA roster

and the modern AA player would have a batting average of 612 and hit 97 home runs off the same pitching Ruth faced.

[puckpaul]

Ruth was the best hitter back then. Of course he could hit today’s pitching. Assuming otherwise seems ridiculous. Many of today’s pitchers are fast but stink. Mets staff has been full of those guys.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Pitchers throw much harder today and are aided by aided by advances in science that pitchers 100 years ago didn't have.

But, imagine how much better past great hitters would be if they were transported to the present and had access to everything that hitters today have, like strength and conditioning coaching, dieticians and improved health/lifestyle information, data on swing mechanics and other hitting analytics, opposition research, and of course, the new shift limitations.

[JimC]

In sports you have essentially three components that make a player good: talent, skill and intelligence (in all its forms). When you play sports as a kid it's easy to identify guys who have an abundance of talent. Hand eye coordination, balance, speed, strength. Later you see which of them hone their skills (and intelligence) with practice, observation, coaching, facing top competition, etc. And of course some guys with less natural talent succeed by becoming so skillful and savvy that they can outplay guys who are more naturally gifted.

I suspect most of the truly gifted athletes of the past would, over the course of their playing lives, adjust to their competition and improve their skills much the same way today's young players do. No one is born hitting 105 mph sliders or Zach Wheeler slurves. I bet a young Ty Cobb or Oscar Charleston would look at those pitches in awe - - for about three minutes. Then they would say "give me a week to figure this out."

[Snapolit1]

It always an interesting debate and of course there is no answer.

Oscar Charleston prob could not hit a home run off Zach Wheeler. Sure.

And highly doubtful that Pete Alonso could play two games, get on a bus, drive through the night, have the bus break down in the middle of the night, sleep on the floor of a hotel for 3 hours, and then play 3 more gamers at a high level the next day.

Would Abraham Lincoln be a good lawyer today? I have no freaking idea.

[Fred]

What about Roy Hobbs?

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

... And highly doubtful that Pete Alonso could play two games, get on a bus, drive through the night, have the bus break down in the middle of the night, sleep on the floor of a hotel for 3 hours, and then play ... at a high level the next day...

Re-interpreting the question a bit :

If, after first being born on Feb 6, 1895, Babe had been reincarnated in his next life on Feb 6, 1995, could he hit modern pitching?

Absolutely, and with 7 month older Shoheo Ohtani as his competition, I see him staying with the Red Sox in his second trip to the majors, to completely reverse his own curse. The Pesky Pole being renamed Ruth's Rod, or Babe's Beam (thank you Thesaurus.com).

Doug "with modern medicine Koufax might still be pitching" Goodman

[jakebeckleyoldeagleeye]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

It always an interesting debate and of course there is no answer.

Oscar Charleston prob could not hit a home run off Zach Wheeler. Sure.

And highly doubtful that Pete Alonso could play two games, get on a bus, drive through the night, have the bus break down in the middle of the night, sleep on the floor of a hotel for 3 hours, and then play 3 more gamers at a high level the next day.

Would Abraham Lincoln be a good lawyer today? I have no freaking idea.

Let's see today's boys go back in time with no roids or HGH, no world class supplements, play doubleheaders in St.Louis in July and August, no batting helmets or body armor with headhunting pitchers allowed, no air conditioning or penthouse hotel rooms for one, bounce around and suck down coal smoke for 24 hours on a train in an upper birth, stadiums with 440 plus in cf and 407 in the power alleys and on off days play exhibition games along the way before the next series. And you will play because the owner makes money off that. Oh and in the off season work in a coal or zinc mine.
Sorry I don't see Trout of lover boy Harper quite liking that.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by jakebeckleyoldeagleeye

Sorry I don't see Trout of lover boy Harper quite liking that.

I agree that they wouldn't "like" it, but they could still play and would still be stars.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by bnorth

and the modern AA player would have a batting average of 612 and hit 97 home runs off the same pitching Ruth faced.

Bullshit!

You guys honestly think just nobody alive in the 1920-30’s were in any way athletic? WTF?

There are young players today with some very minor training as youths that can compete at the highest levels of today’s game yet nobody from the past would have been able to compete.

Clown stuff!

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Bullshit!

You guys honestly think just nobody alive in the 1920-30’s were in any way athletic? WTF?

There are young players today with some very minor training as youths that can compete at the highest levels of today’s game yet nobody from the past would have been able to compete.

Clown stuff!

Nailed it!

[jakebeckleyoldeagleeye]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Nailed it!

Have news for you Lou Gehrig or Ted Kluszewski were naturally strong and would destroy these pretty boys that lift the weights and use the special wheaties. A cock strong guy as we used to call them always destroyed the pretty boy weight trainers.
I've spent 40 plus years working out and I've seen it time and time again. Debate it all you want but it's a fact.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by jakebeckleyoldeagleeye

Have news for you Lou Gehrig or Ted Kluszewski were naturally strong and would destroy these pretty boys that lift the weights and use the special wheaties. A cock strong guy as we used to call them always destroyed the pretty boy weight trainers.
I've spent 40 plus years working out and I've seen it time and time again. Debate it all you want but it's a fact.

The only weights I like are family sized packages of oreos, and my main exercise is running to the fridge for another ice cream...

And I agree with you

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's interesting how people's personalities and biases feed into how they answer the question or others like it.

Personally, I think baseball has probably evolved in terms of athleticism the same way as other sports. Jesse Owens and Paavo Nurmi probably would be average high school runners now based solely on their times. Can you imagine Bill Tilden against Roger Federer? Why would baseball be different?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's interesting how people's personalities and biases feed into how they answer the question or others like it.

What do you see as the personality traits that correlate with different answers?

[Centauri]

In the past, the best most elite athletes played baseball, whereas today football/basketball/even soccer take most of the best.

Ruth was elite at putting bat to ball with power. Those skills would translate just fine to today’s game.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Personally, I think baseball has probably evolved in terms of athleticism the same way as other sports. Jesse Owens and Paavo Nurmi probably would be average high school runners now based solely on their times. Can you imagine Bill Tilden against Roger Federer? Why would baseball be different?

Note that I didn't pickup 1920s Babe Ruth and drop him in the 2020s, I move his birthday 100 years...

Roger Federer is only Roger Federer because of the bedrock of Bill Tilden, there is no reason to think that "new" Bill Tilden given the same bedrock of "old" Bill Tilden wouldn't be able to complete with Roger Federer.

[71buc]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's interesting how people's personalities and biases feed into how they answer the question or others like it.

Personally, I think baseball has probably evolved in terms of athleticism the same way as other sports. Jesse Owens and Paavo Nurmi probably would be average high school runners now based solely on their times. Can you imagine Bill Tilden against Roger Federer? Why would baseball be different?

I absolutely agree

[rhettyeakley]

I honestly don’t know who would struggle more…

1. The best from the past being transported today with all the modern advances and salary and computer/video help to adjust their game.

-or-

2. The best from today transported to 1920 and having to play in those conditions with only the technology available at the time with no IR and pitchers having to pitch complete games and little to no use of relief pitching.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I honestly don’t know who would struggle more…

1. The best from the past being transported today with all the modern advances and salary and computer/video help to adjust their game.

-or-

2. The best from today transported to 1920 and having to play in those conditions with only the technology available at the time with no IR and pitchers having to pitch complete games and little to no use of relief pitching.

Oh, now that some perspective is added... Could Roy Hobbs have hit modern day pitching?

Good call RY.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I honestly don’t know who would struggle more…

1. The best from the past being transported today with all the modern advances and salary and computer/video help to adjust their game.

-or-

2. The best from today transported to 1920 and having to play in those conditions with only the technology available at the time with no IR and pitchers having to pitch complete games and little to no use of relief pitching.

Today's AVERAGE player would melt under the strain of past conditions.

The AVERAGE player of the past could only do better today.

[CJinPA]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Today's AVERAGE player would melt under the strain of past conditions.

The AVERAGE player of the past could only do better today.

It sounds as if you're underestimating today's players - don't do that. Baseball today is a different game than it was in the say the 20's - 50's.

I've posted this in another thread but the pitchers of today would annihilate all but the very, very best in the old generations. The pitch shaping, velocity, and pinpoint precision of sliders, curves and changeups would blow yesteryear hitters out of the water - for a time. If they kept their mouths shut, the ramp-up for older players would take even longer!

I can only take what I hear from the Ryne Sandbergs, Mike Schmidt and John Kruks of the world during their broadcasts and see with my eyes. They all have stated during broadcasts or interviews that the evolution of MLB pitching since around 2010 has been astonishing. Schmidt himself said he'd struggle to perform like the superstar hitters of today.

I'll take their words for it and extrapolate that back to the 20's-50's. It's tough debate since we'll never know - but we can all see the game is different in so many ways - some would survive, I have no doubt but to what degree?

[bnorth]

I love these type of posts. It amazes me how people romanticize about their heroes. Todays players are JACKED and super athletic. Even the little guys are JACKED to the max. You ever see little bitty Jose Altuve without a shirt. He looks like the incredible hulk in miniature form.

The most jacked player from Ruths time would be WAY more out of shape than todays MLB benchwarmer. People are bigger, faster, and holly $hit insanely stronger now than 100 years ago.

What I see is a bunch of people that love their favorite player and are mad people do not think he would still be the greatest if playing now. Babe Ruth was the greatest of his era without question. If in his absolute prime he was magically transported to now. He would b e considered so out of shape he wouldn't even be in the best shape on a lot of beer league softball teams.

[packs]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I love these type of posts. It amazes me how people romanticize about their heroes. Todays players are JACKED and super athletic. Even the little guys are JACKED to the max. You ever see little bitty Jose Altuve without a shirt. He looks like the incredible hulk in miniature form.

The most jacked player from Ruths time would be WAY more out of shape than todays MLB benchwarmer. People are bigger, faster, and holly $hit insanely stronger now than 100 years ago.

What I see is a bunch of people that love their favorite player and are mad people do not think he would still be the greatest if playing now. Babe Ruth was the greatest of his era without question. If in his absolute prime he was magically transported to now. He would b e considered so out of shape he wouldn't even be in the best shape on a lot of beer league softball teams.

This is just simply not true. Ruth was hitting in old stadiums and he was outhitting the entire league. No one had ever done that before and it wasn't just because Ruth was "jacked". He had supreme technique and supreme coordination.

You can't shake those skills. They are immediately transferrable in any time. He would be killing pitching today and probably hitting over a thousand home runs in tiny parks.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by bnorth

You ever see little bitty Jose Altuve without a shirt

Only when he's not wearing a buzzer

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I love these type of posts. It amazes me how people romanticize about their heroes. Todays players are JACKED and super athletic. Even the little guys are JACKED to the max. You ever see little bitty Jose Altuve without a shirt. He looks like the incredible hulk in miniature form.

The most jacked player from Ruths time would be WAY more out of shape than todays MLB benchwarmer. People are bigger, faster, and holly $hit insanely stronger now than 100 years ago.

What I see is a bunch of people that love their favorite player and are mad people do not think he would still be the greatest if playing now. Babe Ruth was the greatest of his era without question. If in his absolute prime he was magically transported to now. He would b e considered so out of shape he wouldn't even be in the best shape on a lot of beer league softball teams.

So please explain how the Splendid Splinter, Ted Williams, who wasn't ripped or jacked could have hit a baseball over 500 feet to a painted seat in Fenway, and nobody else on the Red Sox, including super strong Big Pappi has even come close. Baseball has always been the "everyman" sport. Hitting has always been about load, swing path, and timing . . . not brute strength.

And your assessment of Babe Ruth in today's era is laughable. I suppose Satchel Paige couldn't have pitched in the majors today either, even though he had a heater so fast that he was known for sitting his outfield down from time to time, and pitching the entire inning without them.