Seller sues dealer/buyer for a high flip

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

What if the market moved because I got lucky when I bought it?

Real life example: I bought a 1951B PSA 8 Mays for $48k in June 2020. A few months later, another example sold at auction for $300k+. If I sold mine a few months later, should I go back to the seller and share some of the sales proceeds?

Plainly no. You paid an appropriate price at the time.

[Shemp]

Nobody seems to have brought up the biggest issue.....was this mask stolen from Gabon years ago? If so, shouldn't this mask be returned to the rightful owners?

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Shemp

Nobody seems to have brought up the biggest issue.....was this mask stolen from Gabon years ago? If so, shouldn't this mask be returned to the rightful owners?

I'll bet the original owners are dead.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Shemp

Nobody seems to have brought up the biggest issue.....was this mask stolen from Gabon years ago? If so, shouldn't this mask be returned to the rightful owners?

Only if you want to give back this country to the people who were conquered by the English/Americans.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Only if you want to give back this country to the people who were conquered by the English/Americans.

Don’t forget the Dutch, the Spanish, and the French!

Probably a few others mixed in too.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by raulus

Don’t forget the Dutch, the Spanish, and the French!

Probably a few others mixed in too.

Not to mention, long before Europeans came to this continent, the various Native American tribes were routinely attacking and stealing land from each other.

[Prof]

Originally Posted by Shemp

Nobody seems to have brought up the biggest issue.....was this mask stolen from Gabon years ago? If so, shouldn't this mask be returned to the rightful owners?

I'm glad someone brought finally brought this up. Regardless of whether you think the guy who spent $157 on it did so un/ethically, the macro ethics angle is very interesting to me.

Although the 'owners' would be long dead, it sure sounds like an extremely significant cultural relic that would be best to sell to/return to Gabon for display in a museum... especially since the article mentions that the French guy's relative was a freaking colonialist governor.



The couple claims this guy essentially stole the mask from them, and then they turned down 300k from the guy after the sale, presumably because they want all of the money for themselves.

Man, that's a startling amount of hypocrisy to me when your ancestor most likely took it himself as a spoil of oppressive colonialism.

If anyone deserves the money or mask, it'd be the people of Gabon.

Sounds like a bit of Gabonese karma finally swinging back to the family to me.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Prof

I'm glad someone brought finally brought this up. Regardless of whether you think the guy who spent $157 on it did so un/ethically, the macro ethics angle is very interesting to me.

Although the 'owners' would be long dead, it sure sounds like an extremely significant cultural relic that would be best to sell to/return to Gabon for display in a museum... especially since the article mentions that the French guy's relative was a freaking colonialist governor.



The couple claims this guy essentially stole the mask from them, and then they turned down 300k from the guy after the sale, presumably because they want all of the money for themselves.

Man, that's a startling amount of hypocrisy to me when your ancestor most likely took it himself as a spoil of oppressive colonialism.

If anyone deserves the money or mask, it'd be the people of Gabon.

Sounds like a bit of Gabonese karma finally swinging back to the family to me.

This chapter seems like a bit of a leap.

The mask is stated to be from the nineteenth century and used by a secret society that functioned until 1920, acquired by an 88 year old man's grandfather likely during the late 19th century. It's the obscurity of the origin and the materials causing value here, not age. It was likely damn near new when he received it.

Why to do we have to place an imaginary story of an oppressive Indiana Jones in a pith hat burning the village and children for their prized good luck charm when a more likely story was he probably bought it at a street market as souvenir junk at the time? Also, Gabon is easily one of the richest countries in Africa due to an incredible wealth of rare resources, it is not a bad place to be and rather lovely. If they felt in the slightest that they wanted the item, they could easily add a legal team that was outstanding...they don't give a flying f.

This is one of those rewrites in history that we love to do in modern times. Perhaps we don't assume the great evils of everyone and instead think progress would have never happened if not for the actions of the past, both good and bad.

[D. Bergin]

“Secret Society”?

Maybe not so secret. Collectors must have put a great deal of faith in the “ethnologist”, who authenticated this piece.

Anybody else getting Dead Sea Scroll, Morman Bible, Barry Halper collection vibes from this story?

As in, maybe the mask really only is worth a few hundred bucks…but the piece of historical fiction that the last niche auction house crafted around the piece, is what is actually worth millions.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Anybody else getting Dead Sea Scroll, Morman Bible, Barry Harper collection vibes from this story?

I like where your head is at!

I promise I’m not trying to make this religious, but one small request - if you’re going to refer to us, make sure to spell our pejorative yet ubiquitous nickname correctly. Mormons.

Bonus endorsement from South Park: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jbNnsiP4Rhg

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by raulus

I like where your head is at!

I promise I’m not trying to make this religious, but one small request - if you’re going to refer to us, make sure to spell our pejorative yet ubiquitous nickname correctly. Mormons.

Bonus endorsement from South Park: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jbNnsiP4Rhg

Apologies sir. "Mormon Bible".

...but since it WAS a hoax, maybe my typo (ie. horrible spelling) was more apt.



edited to add, for those not in the know, I'm referring to a fabricated document that was the subject of a Netflix documentary series recently......not the actual religious denomination.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by JustinD

This chapter seems like a bit of a leap.

The mask is stated to be from the nineteenth century and used by a secret society that functioned until 1920, acquired by an 88 year old man's grandfather likely during the late 19th century. It's the obscurity of the origin and the materials causing value here, not age. It was likely damn near new when he received it.

Why to do we have to place an imaginary story of an oppressive Indiana Jones in a pith hat burning the village and children for their prized good luck charm when a more likely story was he probably bought it at a street market as souvenir junk at the time? Also, Gabon is easily one of the richest countries in Africa due to an incredible wealth of rare resources, it is not a bad place to be and rather lovely. If they felt in the slightest that they wanted the item, they could easily add a legal team that was outstanding...they don't give a flying f.

This is one of those rewrites in history that we love to do in modern times. Perhaps we don't assume the great evils of everyone and instead think progress would have never happened if not for the actions of the past, both good and bad.

Don't take the name of Indiana Jones in vain.

[campyfan39]

This has been a fascinating thread. My take is that if someone is selling something and asking a certain price the buyer is under no obligation to educate them on what they believe the actual value is.
It would be totally different if the buyer haggled with the seller or if a buyer tried to convince someone who had something of great value that is was not very valuable.

The Wagner in the old book at the bookstore is much more complex IMO. In that case, the seller has no idea the card is in there and that he is selling the card. Should he have been more diligent about being sure the books didn't contain anything? Perhaps. Yet also if shown the card at checkout who is to say if the dealer wouldn't recognize it for what it was?

[dbrown]

Adding in that some Gabonese people did, in fact, protest the sale in 2022. They said, with reason, that it was a stolen cultural object.

https://www.rfi.fr/en/africa/2022032...-protest-gabon