Goldin Increasing Buyer's Premium

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Is this because they're having to give more juice back to their consignors to remain competitive with the other Major Auction Houses???? Could be..it's business.

You think Goldin is struggling to keep up?

[mrreality68]

The BP percent will not go down when the market cools and other Auction Houses will keep an eye on Goldin and if they feel Goldin is not losing consignments and sales from it then they will follow with increasing their BP percentage.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

The BP percent will not go down when the market cools and other Auction Houses will keep an eye on Goldin and if they feel Goldin is not losing consignments and sales from it then they will follow with increasing their BP percentage.

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

[jsfriedm]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

I would predict Heritage would be the first to follow.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

Drew, I'll give it until the end of 2024.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

I'd bet against this. I think each AH will analyze their situation (expenses, profit margin,) and make independent decisions. They won't simply follow Goldin like lemmings.

CU has a near monopoly situation with PSA and that registry. I think they underestimated the collective (pun intended) strength of all the other AH when they acquired Goldin. When you look at all the great stuff continually offered by the other AH, both the major and smaller ones, there's a ton of really high-quality items Goldin isn't getting a piece of.

In short, I think CU expected Goldin to dominate the AH space to a far greater extent than they are, and this price increase may be a reaction to that. IMO it will only give them a competitive disadvantage.

I would bet large that Hunt, specifically, will not go from 17.5% to 22% for at least a few years, if ever.

[ValKehl]

Mark, I'd almost be happy for Hunt to increase its BP from 17.5% to 20%, provided this increment was used to acquire state-of-the-art auction software.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Mark, I'd almost be happy for Hunt to increase its BP from 17.5% to 20%, provided this increment was used to acquire state-of-the-art auction software.

LOL, I hear you! Their website, which usually has only one picture per lot, is as basic (primitive) as it gets. But, their live auctions (run by Invaluable) are great. I participated (in a small way) in the one 2 days ago. Very fun.

I'd rather have the 17.5% and basic website though, and I've found their customer service to be very good. Their catalogs are excellent as well - when they arrive, a quick perusal tells me if there's anything of interest.

Each AH will go their own way. They won't all follow Goldin.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

I'd take the under on that bet

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Tabe

You think Goldin is struggling to keep up?

Golden now has to answer to CU and the stakes are much higher, for perspective if they had to pay the freight on a $200,000,000 loan at 7% the interest alone would be north of $1.6 million per month or $415,000 per weekly auction.

Of course the pressure is on, CU paid at the top of the market with drunken projections for the future and a poorly designed platform.

Don't lose sight that Ken is a really, really good salesman and the CU gang were using OPM for their purchase.

It's an exhausting high stakes game that hobbyists don't even need to engage in, imho.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Golden now has to answer to CU and the stakes are much higher, for perspective if they had to pay the freight on a $200,000,000 loan at 7% the interest alone would be north of $1.6 million per month or $415,000 per weekly auction.

Of course the pressure is on, CU paid at the top of the market with drunken projections for the future and a poorly designed platform.

Don't lose sight that Ken is a really, really good salesman and the CU gang were using OPM for their purchase.

It's an exhausting high stakes game that hobbyists don't even need to engage in imho.

This.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Golden now has to answer to CU and the stakes are much higher, for perspective if they had to pay the freight on a $200,000,000 loan at 7% the interest alone would be north of $1.6 million per month or $415,000 per weekly auction.

Of course the pressure is on, CU paid at the top of the market with drunken projections for the future and a poorly designed platform.

Don't lose sight that Ken is a really, really good salesman and the CU gang were using OPM for their purchase.

It's an exhausting high stakes game that hobbyists don't even need to engage in, imho.

Imma go out on a limb and suggest that the weekly auctions aren’t paying much of the debt service here. It’s the premier auctions that are doing the heavy lifting.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by raulus

Imma go out on a limb and suggest that the weekly auctions aren’t paying much of the debt service here. It’s the premier auctions that are doing the heavy lifting.

I'll posit the 2021 projections were generous at best. The business model was flawed imo at those heady levels. MJ rookies and the whole fomo all boats rise with the tide mentality took hold, when your talking about those corporate investment levels it's no longer about the hobby but serious ROI. I'm no expert thankfully, I'm just a collector but it's not rocket science to observe collectible economic cycles.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Golden now has to answer to CU and the stakes are much higher, for perspective if they had to pay the freight on a $200,000,000 loan at 7% the interest alone would be north of $1.6 million per month or $415,000 per weekly auction.

Of course the pressure is on, CU paid at the top of the market with drunken projections for the future and a poorly designed platform.

Don't lose sight that Ken is a really, really good salesman and the CU gang were using OPM for their purchase.

It's an exhausting high stakes game that hobbyists don't even need to engage in, imho.

Good post

[Snapolit1]

I have no axe to grind re: Goldin. They are a board advertiser, and I have bought from them many times. I will say that their auctions, at least on the vintage side, have gotten real thin of late. Some of the weekly auctions are super unimpressive.

Everyone who rushed to weekly and monthly auctions should go back to 3 or 4 a year. Market has been changed and not for the better. It's relentless and waters down your product.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I have no axe to grind re: Goldin. They are a board advertiser, and I have bought from them many times. I will say that their auctions, at least on the vintage side, have gotten real thin of late. Some of the weekly auctions are super unimpressive.

Everyone who rushed to weekly and monthly auctions should go back to 3 or 4 a year. Market has been changed and not for the better. It's relentless and waters down your product.

When CU bought Goldin they quit advertising here. They might advertise in the future again. There is no doubt Ken has to answer to CU in many ways.

.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Leon

When CU bought Goldin they quit advertising here. They might advertise in the future again. There is no doubt Ken has to answer to CU in many ways.

.

Good to know.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Good to know.

When I posted my last message, concerning Goldin advertising here, I hadn't known about emails that went to spam yesterday. They might start advertising again very soon, in some form.
.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I have no axe to grind re: Goldin. They are a board advertiser, and I have bought from them many times. I will say that their auctions, at least on the vintage side, have gotten real thin of late. Some of the weekly auctions are super unimpressive.

Everyone who rushed to weekly and monthly auctions should go back to 3 or 4 a year. Market has been changed and not for the better. It's relentless and waters down your product.

Some have posited that these weekly auctions are a natural result of the decline of eBay due to the newly lowered threshold for 1099s on that platform. I suspect that the weekly auctions have their place in this brave new world, although agree that most of the weeklies tend to be full of vast mountains of bargain bin items, which can be difficult to feel any desire to attempt to keep up with. Particularly because it’s usually not as simple as just setting an eBay search alert for when something on your wish list comes along.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Some have posited that these weekly auctions are a natural result of the decline of eBay due to the newly lowered threshold for 1099s on that platform. I suspect that the weekly auctions have their place in this brave new world, although agree that most of the weeklies tend to be full of vast mountains of bargain bin items, which can be difficult to feel any desire to attempt to keep up with. Particularly because it’s usually not as simple as just setting an eBay search alert for when something on your wish list comes along.

What an outrage having to pay taxes.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What an outrage having to pay taxes.

HA.

I don't doubt that's part of it. Another part could just be the administrative side. I suspect most of us struggle to keep good records about every piece we have, and then report each of those individual sales and our gain/loss. Even if you only sell 1 piece each week, that's 52 sales to be tracking and reporting on your tax return. In some cases, your income might be little or nothing, so no real tax to be paid - just administrative stuff to navigate.

I'm guessing the average American feels like that entire exercise is one gigantic hassle that they'd prefer to avoid if they can. Plus not wanting to endure the administrative hassle it's a great excuse to feel better about yourself if it also happens to result in you paying less tax.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Everyone who rushed to weekly and monthly auctions should go back to 3 or 4 a year. Market has been changed and not for the better. It's relentless and waters down your product.

For many years now, Heritage has been doing weekly auctions. I never really view them, and even more rarely buy from weekly auctions, but I think they (and monthly auctions, which groups like sterling and iconic have been doing for years) have an audience and legitimate value in the marketplace. They dont bother me at all. If you dont like them, dont look at them.

I do agree that the big auction events have been watered down. REA;s auctions used to be all the rage. They are still great, but dont have the buzz and chatter they used to have. Heritage has an auction every month, which potentially lessens the sensation of their platinum events. All that said, there is still a ton of great stuff coming to auction all the time, so i dont the its affecting the overall quality of material brought to the market annually.

Regarding Goldin, I have no issue with them whatsoever and have only had good experiences. That said, I am not sure i have bought anything from Goldin since it was sold - I think the website/interface is annoying and clumsy/non-intuitive and the auctions rarely have items I want. But if/when they have something that appeals to me, I will bid with them and i will do so with confidence. I have never consigned anything to Goldin and I am not sure i ever will- this increased BP makes it even more unlikely.