Goldin Increasing Buyer's Premium

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

Goldin has apparently increased their buyer's premium to 22%. I agree, of course, that all bidders should be doing the math and know the full cost of their bids, so I am not claiming deception or anything here. But given that 20% is pretty standard and the proliferation of auctions and auction houses should in theory make competition more intense, is anyone surprised that Goldin is raising, rather than lowering the buyer's premium? Do we think other auction houses are likely to follow? Does anyone expect this to hurt Goldin at all?

Is this because they're having to give more juice back to their consignors to remain competitive with the other Major Auction Houses???? Could be..it's business.

[Exhibitman]

What they are signaling is that unless you have really great stuff and thus the leverage to negotiate for a share of the BP, they are going to take an even bigger cut of the action.

[bobbyw8469]

I predict 25% will be the new standard soon.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I'll say we're trying to hold the line at 18% and no extra charge for credit card or paypal, but it's tough, because people still expect you to give back on the BP for the best stuff even though we're collecting 2-6% less in the first place.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I predict 25% will be the new standard soon.

At some point if you're a consignor of anything but elite cards, it doesn't make sense to give up 25 percent of the sale price to an auction house.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At some point if you're a consignor of anything but elite cards, it doesn't make sense to give up 25 percent of the sale price to an auction house.

It's absurd. Why would anyone pay this? Just put it on ebay or send it to Probstein where he only charges 5%

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by Snowman

It's absurd. Why would anyone pay this? Just put it on ebay or send it to Probstein where he only charges 5%

Lol. Yes, Probstein is the answer. Lol.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by BRoberts

Lol. Yes, Probstein is the answer. Lol.

That guy is a different dude. Couple bad experiences with his outfit.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I predict 25% will be the new standard soon.

Why not? The major auctions have no shortage of material. Capitalize on the market.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I predict 25% will be the new standard soon.

Goldin takes credit cards for an additional 3% fee so their BP is at 25% if one pays that way.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Goldin takes credit cards for an additional 3% fee so their BP is at 25% if one pays that way.

They are just passing the CC fee on to the buyer instead of eating it themselves.

[philo98]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Goldin takes credit cards for an additional 3% fee so their BP is at 25% if one pays that way.

Looking back at my Goldin invoices I was never charged a credit card fee. Each invoice shows $0.00 for this.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by philo98

Looking back at my Goldin invoices I was never charged a credit card fee. Each invoice shows $0.00 for this.

Their site shows they charge it now. I have never bid with them (because of their website design which I find too hard to navigate) and maybe it is that they used to discount the invoices for payments by check, wire, etc?

[jsfriedm]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Is this because they're having to give more juice back to their consignors to remain competitive with the other Major Auction Houses???? Could be..it's business.

Doesn't seem like it. Consignors pay a 5% seller's premium up to 2,500, get 0% of the buyer's premium up to 7,500, and only get a 5% cut beyond that.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

Doesn't seem like it. Consignors pay a 5% seller's premium up to 2,500, get 0% of the buyer's premium up to 7,500, and only get a 5% cut beyond that.

Yeah, that's recent to. They're giving less juice and charging seller's premiums where they didn't used to.

Fairly recently I sent a submission of modern-ish cards I didn't really want to handle myself to the vault, to eventually auction/sell on the Goldin platform.

There was no additional sellers premium or listing fee for anything that sold over $25.00. Now that bottom level was jacked all the way up to $2500 bucks, on top of the 2% increase in the buyers premium.

So essentially, a 20% selling fee went up to a 27% selling fee, since I don't generally play in the higher end playground.

I had what was left sent back to me. I guess I'll go back to dealing with the hassle of Ebay myself.

I understand them not wanting to handle that stuff. They probably discovered they didn't have enough incentive to inventory, store, handle and ship out the cheaper cards in their weekly auctions.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Yeah, that's recent to. They're giving less juice and charging seller's premiums where they didn't used to.

Fairly recently I sent a submission of modern-ish cards I didn't really want to handle myself to the vault, to eventually auction/sell on the Goldin platform.

There was no additional sellers premium or listing fee for anything that sold over $25.00. Now that bottom level was jacked all the way up to $2500 bucks, on top of the 2% increase in the buyers premium.

So essentially, a 20% selling fee went up to a 27% selling fee, since I don't generally play in the higher end playground.

I had what was left sent back to me. I guess I'll go back to dealing with the hassle of Ebay myself.

I understand them not wanting to handle that stuff. They probably discovered they didn't have enough incentive to inventory, store, handle and ship out the cheaper cards in their weekly auctions.

OK, just got another e-mail from them stating that graded cards from the vault, are still at a 0% sellers commission, though buyers premium is still going up to 22%. $5 listing fee now applies for any card that sells below $50 now, instead of the previous 15 or 20 bucks or so...which I totally understand.

Not a huge deal, but wish they would have made that clearer with the earlier e-mail.

[ejharrington]

I hope they use the money to improve the website and search / sort function.

[Mark17]

I won a shirt in today's Hunt live auction. They are still at 17.5%.

[JeremyW]

Every buyer's premium increase only hurts the seller.

[Snowman]

I'm surprised they even take cards under $100 or so honestly. They're making next to nothing on cheap cards.

As to the rate hike, I am assuming they did it because they think they're the big dogs now because of the Netflix show. It probably has brought them more business, so they're trying to meet the increased demand with higher pricing. Whether that turns out to be a wise decision or not though remains to be seen.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I'm surprised they even take cards under $100 or so honestly. They're making next to nothing on cheap cards.

As to the rate hike, I am assuming they did it because they think they're the big dogs now because of the Netflix show. It probably has brought them more business, so they're trying to meet the increased demand with higher pricing. Whether that turns out to be a wise decision or not though remains to be seen.

I'm amazed how many PSA 8 1988 Topps All Stars and the like they fill their auctions with.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

OK, just got another e-mail from them stating that graded cards from the vault, are still at a 0% sellers commission, though buyers premium is still going up to 22%. $5 listing fee now applies for any card that sells below $50 now, instead of the previous 15 or 20 bucks or so...which I totally understand.

Not a huge deal, but wish they would have made that clearer with the earlier e-mail.

Only an idiot would pay a seller's commission

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Only an idiot would pay a seller's commission

How do you really feel, Jay? .

I completely agree that only an idiot would pay it; an imbecile or moron is too smart to fall for that. I guess all those idiots can do is work really hard at it and aspire to become an imbecile or perhaps even a moron (for the over-achievers). And just to head off the pissy emails from angry imbeciles and morons, no, I am not prejudiced against them. I have imbeciles and morons in my own family, and when I was a teenager i definitely thought my father was an idiot. Anyone who'd get bent out of shape about it is a cretin.

[Brian Van Horn]

Buy has been replaced by bye bye.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

Doesn't seem like it. Consignors pay a 5% seller's premium up to 2,500, get 0% of the buyer's premium up to 7,500, and only get a 5% cut beyond that.

I guarantee you that if I walk in with a T206 Wagner that number is 100% negotiable.

[bbcard1]

We are still very much in the FOMO phase of card buying. I think it will depend on how much of an influx of new money continues into the hobby. 22% may be sticky. You may also see a tiered % at some point.

[jsfriedm]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I guarantee you that if I walk in with a T206 Wagner that number is 100% negotiable.

Or a complete T-Rex skull.

[Exhibitman]

Or any number of other items.

I get why they are doing it. Hot market. I was in the market for a new car earlier this year and wanted to go electric and take advantage of the tax rebate. In the two weeks I contemplated it, the Chevy dealer jacked up the price $900 because the cars were moving and they wanted a cut of the rebate money. When the market cools, the BP will be readily negotiable. Besides, there are so many AHs now that you can get a better deal elsewhere. it's not like Goldin brings any better expertise or better marketing to bear. Frankly, their site is clunky and they run so much crap all the time that it feels like anything under six figures is just thrown out there with a pro forma description and very little effort.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

Or a complete T-Rex skull.

Or a shark's tooth.

[Yoda]

So the guy who proudly proclaimed on UTube that he has a 9 figure bank account feels he has to squeeze consignors and buyers for another 2%. Despite what Gordon Geko said, greed is ugly.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

So the guy who proudly proclaimed on UTube that he has a 9 figure bank account feels he has to squeeze consignors and buyers for another 2%. Despite what Gordon Geko said, greed is ugly.

Goldin Auctions is under common ownership now with PSA/CU. The decision may be coming from that level.

[glchen]

I am not really too bothered by the increase in BP since you can always factor that into your bidding. However, I am fairly annoyed that Goldin needs to receive your payment within 6 days of their auction ending or that they will hit you with an additional 3% late fee. If you send payment through snail mail the next day, there's a good chance that it won't even arrive in 6 days. This was for Goldin's recent Elite 200 auction that ended on Sept 13th, and the invoices came late that night. The due date was set at Sept 20th. To be fair to Goldin, I did call their office to discuss this, and they said that they could withdraw the late fee if I needed more time. The other thing I complained to them about was that their shipping/insurance fee of 0.9% of purchase price +$19 ended up being nearly 3 times the shipping price of my Memory Lane winnings for a comparable amount, which I thought was significantly too high. They said they could not do anything about that, however.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Yoda

So the guy who proudly proclaimed on UTube that he has a 9 figure bank account feels he has to squeeze consignors and buyers for another 2%. Despite what Gordon Geko said, greed is ugly.

He's not making the decisions, he doesn't own the company.

[brianp-beme]

Got to up the buyer's premium when you have to hire more hands for cards to be holdin'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPiALa0CIMc


Brian

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I guarantee you that if I walk in with a T206 Wagner that number is 100% negotiable.

And? The overwhelming majority of cards that people consign are at a much much much lower level.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Is this because they're having to give more juice back to their consignors to remain competitive with the other Major Auction Houses???? Could be..it's business.

You think Goldin is struggling to keep up?

[mrreality68]

The BP percent will not go down when the market cools and other Auction Houses will keep an eye on Goldin and if they feel Goldin is not losing consignments and sales from it then they will follow with increasing their BP percentage.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

The BP percent will not go down when the market cools and other Auction Houses will keep an eye on Goldin and if they feel Goldin is not losing consignments and sales from it then they will follow with increasing their BP percentage.

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

[jsfriedm]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

I would predict Heritage would be the first to follow.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

Drew, I'll give it until the end of 2024.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

I'd bet against this. I think each AH will analyze their situation (expenses, profit margin,) and make independent decisions. They won't simply follow Goldin like lemmings.

CU has a near monopoly situation with PSA and that registry. I think they underestimated the collective (pun intended) strength of all the other AH when they acquired Goldin. When you look at all the great stuff continually offered by the other AH, both the major and smaller ones, there's a ton of really high-quality items Goldin isn't getting a piece of.

In short, I think CU expected Goldin to dominate the AH space to a far greater extent than they are, and this price increase may be a reaction to that. IMO it will only give them a competitive disadvantage.

I would bet large that Hunt, specifically, will not go from 17.5% to 22% for at least a few years, if ever.

[ValKehl]

Mark, I'd almost be happy for Hunt to increase its BP from 17.5% to 20%, provided this increment was used to acquire state-of-the-art auction software.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Mark, I'd almost be happy for Hunt to increase its BP from 17.5% to 20%, provided this increment was used to acquire state-of-the-art auction software.

LOL, I hear you! Their website, which usually has only one picture per lot, is as basic (primitive) as it gets. But, their live auctions (run by Invaluable) are great. I participated (in a small way) in the one 2 days ago. Very fun.

I'd rather have the 17.5% and basic website though, and I've found their customer service to be very good. Their catalogs are excellent as well - when they arrive, a quick perusal tells me if there's anything of interest.

Each AH will go their own way. They won't all follow Goldin.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

I'd take the under on that bet

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Tabe

You think Goldin is struggling to keep up?

Golden now has to answer to CU and the stakes are much higher, for perspective if they had to pay the freight on a $200,000,000 loan at 7% the interest alone would be north of $1.6 million per month or $415,000 per weekly auction.

Of course the pressure is on, CU paid at the top of the market with drunken projections for the future and a poorly designed platform.

Don't lose sight that Ken is a really, really good salesman and the CU gang were using OPM for their purchase.

It's an exhausting high stakes game that hobbyists don't even need to engage in, imho.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Golden now has to answer to CU and the stakes are much higher, for perspective if they had to pay the freight on a $200,000,000 loan at 7% the interest alone would be north of $1.6 million per month or $415,000 per weekly auction.

Of course the pressure is on, CU paid at the top of the market with drunken projections for the future and a poorly designed platform.

Don't lose sight that Ken is a really, really good salesman and the CU gang were using OPM for their purchase.

It's an exhausting high stakes game that hobbyists don't even need to engage in imho.

This.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Golden now has to answer to CU and the stakes are much higher, for perspective if they had to pay the freight on a $200,000,000 loan at 7% the interest alone would be north of $1.6 million per month or $415,000 per weekly auction.

Of course the pressure is on, CU paid at the top of the market with drunken projections for the future and a poorly designed platform.

Don't lose sight that Ken is a really, really good salesman and the CU gang were using OPM for their purchase.

It's an exhausting high stakes game that hobbyists don't even need to engage in, imho.

Imma go out on a limb and suggest that the weekly auctions aren’t paying much of the debt service here. It’s the premier auctions that are doing the heavy lifting.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by raulus

Imma go out on a limb and suggest that the weekly auctions aren’t paying much of the debt service here. It’s the premier auctions that are doing the heavy lifting.

I'll posit the 2021 projections were generous at best. The business model was flawed imo at those heady levels. MJ rookies and the whole fomo all boats rise with the tide mentality took hold, when your talking about those corporate investment levels it's no longer about the hobby but serious ROI. I'm no expert thankfully, I'm just a collector but it's not rocket science to observe collectible economic cycles.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Golden now has to answer to CU and the stakes are much higher, for perspective if they had to pay the freight on a $200,000,000 loan at 7% the interest alone would be north of $1.6 million per month or $415,000 per weekly auction.

Of course the pressure is on, CU paid at the top of the market with drunken projections for the future and a poorly designed platform.

Don't lose sight that Ken is a really, really good salesman and the CU gang were using OPM for their purchase.

It's an exhausting high stakes game that hobbyists don't even need to engage in, imho.

Good post

[Snapolit1]

I have no axe to grind re: Goldin. They are a board advertiser, and I have bought from them many times. I will say that their auctions, at least on the vintage side, have gotten real thin of late. Some of the weekly auctions are super unimpressive.

Everyone who rushed to weekly and monthly auctions should go back to 3 or 4 a year. Market has been changed and not for the better. It's relentless and waters down your product.