Cards still being outed on Blowout -- PSA 9 Monte Irvin in the recent ML

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And this is the Jackie he references.

Disturbing, if true.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=130

That's a reflection on what he's calling a rebuilt upper right corner.

Here's a different image from another sale of the same card.
53 Robinson.jpg

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Pat R

That's a reflection on what he's calling a rebuilt upper right corner.

Here's a different image from another sale of the same card.
Attachment 589494

This is not a rebuilt corner on this 53 Topps Jackie PSA 6. That's not missing paper in the scans. It's a bent corner and the light is reflecting off it in a way that makes it appear like it's missing paper. But it's not. This card has simply been soaked in water and dried flat. That bend would go away just by soaking it in water.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Snowman

This is not a rebuilt corner on this 53 Topps Jackie PSA 6. That's not missing paper in the scans. It's a bent corner and the light is reflecting off it in a way that makes it appear like it's missing paper. But it's not. This card has simply been soaked in water and dried flat. That bend would go away just by soaking it in water.

I know and that's why I posted a different image of the card. I despise the card doctors and scammers in the hobby but I think they're getting carried away with some of the so called alterations that they are pointing out on blowout. The only thing you can prove from the scans of the Jackie card is that it received a grade bump. I don't see a bent corner that you're seeing either.

I'm all for pointing out alterations and outing the guy's that are altering the cards but if they don't limit it to definitive proof they lose credibility IMO.

[JustinD]

This is the result of the investors beginning to outnumber the collectors. A quick perusal of Blowout Forum (flipper central) will net you a an 80/20 positive thought level on card doctoring. The history is backseat to the profit margin.

Sadly as technology progresses this is what I believe will kill the hobby and many more. I envision a 15-20 window before advancement steps up to repair or create such perfect replicas that they will be virtually indistinguishable from original. The TPGs will be rendered useless and it money for purists will possibly flip to low mid grades in the oldest holsters possible. Who knows, but technology will kill history

[raulus]

Originally Posted by JustinD

This is the result of the investors beginning to outnumber the collectors. A quick perusal of Blowout Forum (flipper central) will net you a an 80/20 positive thought level on card doctoring. The history is backseat to the profit margin.

Sadly as technology progresses this is what I believe will kill the hobby and many more. I envision a 15-20 window before advancement steps up to repair or create such perfect replicas that they will be virtually indistinguishable from original. The TPGs will be rendered useless and it money for purists will possibly flip to low mid grades in the oldest holsters possible. Who knows, but technology will kill history

Speaking of the future, if it’s so easy to create a high grade card today, I would expect the pop numbers will start rising dramatically, and prices should fall, because the supply should easily outstrip demand. Particularly if you can spin $50 into $30,000 with so little effort and relatively few skills.

With any luck, the doctors will put themselves out of business by driving down the price for their work.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Speaking of the future, if it’s so easy to create a high grade card today, I would expect the pop numbers will start rising dramatically, and prices should fall, because the supply should easily outstrip demand. Particularly if you can spin $50 into $30,000 with so little effort and relatively few skills.

With any luck, the doctors will put themselves out of business by driving down the price for their work.

What? They've been at this for decades. Do you see prices declining?

[Yoda]

With PWCC now under new management, applying new standards to both bidders and consigners, and, hopefully, severing relations with known 'fixers', I hope the integrity of their auctions will improve. At a minimum, when receiving a highly graded vintage card, they should do their own due diligence and check Blowout to see if the submitted card has been outed.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What? They've been at this for decades. Do you see prices declining?

Which probably is a sign that it can’t be that widespread and/or easy to do.

[G1911]

I can’t imagine paying $30,000 for a common card of Monte Irvin, altered or not. I spent $3 on my copy, I have a hard time seeing as how removing the creases and giving it sharp corners would increase my enjoyment 10,000 times the current level of enjoyment.

If ‘collectors’ didn’t require validation and a label on a 1-10 scale this fraud would not me so immense and profitable. People’s ego’s needing the highest number is inevitably going to produce astonishing levels of fraud when it is so easy to create the items they are paying silly amounts of money for.

How many of us gave up this grading sham once we realized just how fake most of these cards are and the utter incompetence (at best) of PSA to detect it? It seems to mostly be people who never bought in in the first place, people against the fraud but continuing to participate in the game anyways, and people who just don’t care or actively cheerlead or defend fraud.

[BobbyStrawberry]

When I see a 70+ year-old card in a PSA 9, I assume that it's been altered.

And it's absolutely nuts to me that someone would pay $29,950 more for a card that barely looks any better than the 5 just because someone looked at it and slapped a higher number on the label.