A-Rod and his classier counterpart

BobbyStrawberry · #1 09-14-2023, 10:41 AM

I think this is the first time I've ever heard David Ortiz called "classy"... I guess, relative to A-rod, he is, but that's not saying much...

Seven · #2 09-14-2023, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I think this is the first time I've ever heard David Ortiz called "classy"... I guess, relative to A-rod, he is, but that's not saying much...

A lot of revisionist history going around, after Ortiz was nearly murdered by a Drug Cartel.

As a side note, I'm wondering when the shoe falls on the NBA's massive doping scandal. It's pretty much been unspoken about, how much of a problem PED's are in that league. Derrick Rose has even been on the record about it. Also considering the NBA has the laxest policy out of the big 4 when it comes to drug testing.

BobbyStrawberry · #3 09-14-2023, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

A lot of revisionist history going around, after Ortiz was nearly murdered by a Drug Cartel.

As a side note, I'm wondering when the shoe falls on the NBA's massive doping scandal. It's pretty much been unspoken about, how much of a problem PED's are in that league. Derrick Rose has even been on the record about it. Also considering the NBA has the laxest policy out of the big 4 when it comes to drug testing.

What did Rose say? I'd be interested to read that.

Seven · #4 09-14-2023, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

What did Rose say? I'd be interested to read that.

https://www.espn.com.sg/nba/news/story?id=6576340

Rose was one of several professional athletes asked the following question by ESPN the Magazine for its May 16 issue: "If 1 equals 'What are PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs)'? and 10 equals 'Everybody's Juicing' ... How big of an issue is illegal enhancing in your sport?"

In response, Rose said, "Seven. It's huge, and I think we need a level playing field, where nobody has that advantage over the next person."

When the article came out, Stern and a ton of players, pushed back against the narrative, and then Rose retracted it saying that he "didn't even remember the question being asked"

It wouldn't exactly be surprising though. A lot of the (now) older NBA guys from the 90s have talked about cycling doses of vioxx, back then, which is a PED. And It'll be a cold day in hell before I buy that someone like Lebron James, with tens of thousands of miles and minutes on him, could churn out a 29-8-7 season at the age of 38.

DocScoot · #5 09-14-2023, 06:46 PM

Are we talking actual villains or just media villains? Not sure I see Novak belonging on the list if the former.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 09-14-2023, 07:23 PM

I sure hope LeBron did not take PEDs.

https://deadspin.com/lebron-jameds-w...sch-1850834572

bk400 · #7 09-14-2023, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I sure hope LeBron did not take PEDs.

https://deadspin.com/lebron-jameds-w...sch-1850834572

Indeed. It would be terrible for the sport. But it would settle the debate once and for all: Jordan for the win.

bk400 · #8 09-14-2023, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocScoot

Are we talking actual villains or just media villains? Not sure I see Novak belonging on the list if the former.

You're right in that he's not a villain in the same way that OJ Simpson (by the way, a nice addition to the list) is a villain. But he's easy to root against.

When he played Nick Kyrgios in the Wimbledon final last year, I was sort of hoping that they would both default at the exact same time and there would no winner declared.

BobbyStrawberry · #9 09-14-2023, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

https://www.espn.com.sg/nba/news/story?id=6576340

Rose was one of several professional athletes asked the following question by ESPN the Magazine for its May 16 issue: "If 1 equals 'What are PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs)'? and 10 equals 'Everybody's Juicing' ... How big of an issue is illegal enhancing in your sport?"

In response, Rose said, "Seven. It's huge, and I think we need a level playing field, where nobody has that advantage over the next person."

When the article came out, Stern and a ton of players, pushed back against the narrative, and then Rose retracted it saying that he "didn't even remember the question being asked"

It wouldn't exactly be surprising though. A lot of the (now) older NBA guys from the 90s have talked about cycling doses of vioxx, back then, which is a PED. And It'll be a cold day in hell before I buy that someone like Lebron James, with tens of thousands of miles and minutes on him, could churn out a 29-8-7 season at the age of 38.

Thanks - interesting that he walked back his comments like that.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 09-14-2023, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I think this is the first time I've ever heard David Ortiz called "classy"... I guess, relative to A-rod, he is, but that's not saying much...

Papi is a folk hero around these parts.

Mark17 · #11 09-14-2023, 05:58 PM

O.J. Simpson / Walter Payton

bk400 · #12 09-14-2023, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Papi is a folk hero around these parts.

"This is our f*****g city."

Still sends chills down my spine.

Peter_Spaeth · #13 09-15-2023, 09:53 AM

Sammy Sosa/Frank Thomas

steve B · #14 09-15-2023, 09:54 AM

Not counting his brief play in 94

95 - part time team finishes 1st.
96 - finally full time team finishes 2nd
97 - team finishes 1st
98-2000 team either 2nd or third.
2001 -No Arod 1st

New team
2000 no Arod finshed 4th after being 1st in 99
2001 with him finished 4th
Same 2002-2003
2004 no Arod- 3rd

New team
Pre-Arod, long string of division wins
2004 - divison win again, as you'd figure for a team that was a perennial winner with 100+wins the previous two years.
2005 - 6 still 1st
2007 - retirement, aside from 2014 always in the top 3.
2014, not much change without him.
2016 -with him not playing full time -4th
2017 -without him 2nd

It could be said that he made all his teams worse. At best he had essentially no effect on his teams finish, and all three finished better after he left.

Gaudy numbers, but not much else.

Also a fairly decent argument against WAR, because
2000 Arod 10.4
2001 Carlos Guillen 2.3

2003 arod 8.4
2004 Michael Young 1.9

His last few years weren't good, so that comparison wouldn't be particularly fair. but his replacement the year after he retired was Matt Holliday who also had a negative WAR at DH that year.

He probably hung on at least a couple years too long. If I remember it right he got a licensing contract from the Yankees a few years before where he got a portion of the money from any 700th home run merchandizing.

packs · #15 09-15-2023, 10:10 AM

Listen I hate to defend A-rod on any points but the Yankees don't win the 2009 World Series without him. He was a beast in the postseason that year.

Peter_Spaeth · #16 09-15-2023, 10:14 AM

His numbers are compelling. The notion that he did not help his teams is, to me, just wrong. Trash him for being a dickhead, but not for his on field performance.

Seven · #17 09-15-2023, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

His numbers are compelling. The notion that he did not help his teams is, to me, just wrong. Trash him for being a dickhead, but not for his on field performance.

100% agree.

He was extremely valuable to his teams. You can't judge a teams win total by the performance of one guy, especially during his Rangers years. It would be one thing if he was a starting pitching, but position players get maybe 4 at bats a game to make an impact, what about the eight other guys?

Yes, the numbers were influenced by PED's but Rodriguez was an elite offensive talent, and for a good portion of his career, an elite defensive talent as well. There's a reason why the list of, hitters that reached the 600 Home Run and 3000 Hits, milestone, is so small.

Hell he would've hit 700 had the Yankees not forced him into an early retirement. He was a shell by his last season, but still.

gunboat82 · #18 09-15-2023, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Papi is a folk hero around these parts.

He lived a few houses down from me when I was a first-year in law school. This was 2005, so his legend was already cemented. He spent a fair bit of time in his yard, and I had to resist the urge to be this creepy guy: