Fake 68 Ryans?

[4reals]

Hello, I don’t normally do this, but in the situation I could use some help. Does anybody see any red flags with either of these two just based on the picture? I know it’s hard to tell without seeing them in person, but just wondered if there was anything egregious that I am missing. I’m going to be meeting the seller later tonight.




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[Peter_Spaeth]

Are these supposed to be Milton Bradleys?

[4reals]

They don’t have them advertised as such, but I did notice the white strip on the left, is that synonymous with Milton Bradley? Or do any of the regular Topps Ryan cards have that white strip?


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[G1911]

I'm not saying they are or are not real as the pics aren't really good enough to pass judgement, but the white strip is not a concern.

Attached is a Milton Bradley sheet and one of the Topps slits (I don't have the other slit saved). Ryan is a row header card, the white strip indicates an MB, the top of Ernie Ladd's football card.

These sheets are not mine.

[butchie_t]

The partial black line under the Ryan pic, I don't recall that being a thing with a number of ones I have looked at.

But I am certainly no expert here. They look washed but the pictures ares not that great for sure.

Butch

[Peter_Spaeth]

Do I see white strips on BOTH sides of the cards though (look closely), as well as at the top of one?

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Do I see white strips on BOTH sides of the cards though (look closely), as well as at the top of one?

Sure seems like white stripes on both sides. It looks like a reflection on the top of the top one. Hard to tell.....

[packs]

It’s a little weird they seem to be so identical. I’d worry about it being two of the same card too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

It’s a little weird they seem to be so identical. I’d worry about it being two of the same card too.

Look at the mark over Koosman's head on one but not the other, I don't think they're identical, unless it's some kind of artifact.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

The partial black line under the Ryan pic, I don't recall that being a thing with a number of ones I have looked at.

But I am certainly no expert here. They look washed but the pictures ares not that great for sure.

Butch

Yeah, that black line on both is really weird. A lot of MB's seem to be cut with a small bottom border, but some with a bigger border than those don't have any line or marking there. And they do look washed out in these pics...definitely worth the op being extra cautious.

[4reals]

Originally Posted by packs

It’s a little weird they seem to be so identical. I’d worry about it being two of the same card too.

That was the first thing I looked at, and I see differing irregularities on both, including a smudge left of Koosman on the top one.


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[4reals]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

The partial black line under the Ryan pic, I don't recall that being a thing with a number of ones I have looked at.

But I am certainly no expert here. They look washed but the pictures ares not that great for sure.

Butch

I hadn’t noticed that black line on both when posting. Thank you for pointing that out, Butch. I’ll be anxious to take a deeper look at that and verify the yellow color on the back in person.


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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 4reals

They don’t have them advertised as such, but I did notice the white strip on the left, is that synonymous with Milton Bradley? Or do any of the regular Topps Ryan cards have that white strip?


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Joe, not to sound harsh, but if you don't know this issue well, perhaps you should just steer clear of this one as there seem to be questions just from the scans?

[G1911]

A larger than perfect cut Ryan MB can have white on both sides (the vehicle card above, Ernie Ladd below), the sheets have no 'extra' burlap on those sides so even a tiny fraction of cutting off will show white. It is often a warning sign of trimming if a Ryan doesn't have any white border.

The black line is not known to print defect dorks (not to my knowledge at least, who am I to speak for everyone...) and doing a quick search online, I can't find a picture of one with it.

The pictures are not good enough to really judge. If it is a legit print defect it wouldn't be weird to have 2 of them if they came from the same box originally (a defect usually occurs on X numbers of sheets run before it is fixed or something changes on the press to accidentally fix it) and this is an old collection. It certainly doesn't seem to be a common defect though.

I would be a bit wary, more for the black line.

EDIT: The white border at top is too close to the black frame around Ryan to be real (unless it is glare or something). I will amend my opinion to say this is a fake instead of maybe a fake.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

A larger than perfect cut Ryan MB can have white on both sides (the vehicle card above, Ernie Ladd below), the sheets have no 'extra' burlap on those sides so even a tiny fraction of cutting off will show white. It is often a warning sign of trimming if a Ryan doesn't have any white border.

The black line is not known to print defect dorks (not to my knowledge at least, who am I to speak for everyone...) and doing a quick search online, I can't find a picture of one with it.

The pictures are not good enough to really judge. If it is a legit print defect it wouldn't be weird to have 2 of them if they came from the same box originally (a defect usually occurs on X numbers of sheets run before it is fixed or something changes on the press to accidentally fix it) and this is an old collection. It certainly doesn't seem to be a common defect though.

I would be a bit wary, more for the black line.

I don't recall seeing a MB Ryan with white on both sides, and I've seen a lot. Not saying you couldn't be right, but how likely is it TWO of them would show up at the same time with the same seller?

[swarmee]

Neither card looks real to me. Why is it being photographed in toploaders? Why does the brown burlap look washed out? Why are there multiple borders showing white on a single card? If the card was 2.5x3.5, even if it was a Milton Bradley, it would only have white showing on one edge.

If I was trying to buy these online, I would only do so if they passed with a number grade at SGC (cheaper and faster than PSA at $15/card now). If you offered that to the seller, and they balked at submitting them to a grading company, you have your answer.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Neither card looks real to me. Why is it being photographed in toploaders? Why does the brown burlap look washed out? Why are there multiple borders showing white on a single card? If the card was 2.5x3.5, even if it was a Milton Bradley, it would only have white showing on one edge.

If I was trying to buy these online, I would only do so if they passed with a number grade at SGC (cheaper and faster than PSA at $15/card now). If you offered that to the seller, and they balked at submitting them to a grading company, you have your answer.

You mean just because the seller wants to meet in a parking lot for a cash deal you're suspicious?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't recall seeing a MB Ryan with white on both sides, and I've seen a lot. Not saying you couldn't be right, but how likely is it TWO of them would show up at the same time with the same seller?

You'll see them sometimes. I used to have one I traded away, I might still have a scan, I will check for it. It was just well-centered but slightly oversized; most Ryan MB's are not well centered

I say the card is 100% fake because the white border at top is too close to the black frame around Ryan to be real.

Having 2 cards with the same print defect line and cut slightly large isn't necessarily a problem in and of itself; if they were in the same box set they were cut off consecutive or nearly consecutive sheets. It's the above that seals the deal for me.

[Beercan collector]

They almost appear to have another Card or piece of paper underneath them ,
LOL these may be really bad - like a copied reverse side pasted ...

[JollyElm]

Didn't fully read all of the responses, so it may have been mentioned, but the MB Ryan/Kooz card has a telltale sign, a black mark in the lower part of the 'T' in "STARS" (see pic below). The posted pic doesn't show this at all, and the pics themselves really look fake at first glance, just not right (too light, too bland, etc.). I would stay the eff away.

***I AM NOT AN EXPERT***


Screen Shot 2023-09-13 at 4.13.40 PM.jpg

[4reals]

Thanks for the additional tip JollyElm.


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[Peter_Spaeth]

In the style of Darren and a poor imitation

CRAIGLISTITIS: meeting a seller at a dubious location with a bag of cash when it's clear as day the goods are fake

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In the style of Darren and a poor imitation

CRAIGLISTITIS: meeting a seller at a dubious location with a bag of cash when it's clear as day the goods are fake

Well, I do have a brand new round of 'Collectorisms' coming (hopefully tomorrow or Friday), and in it you will find:

Craigslast
When a list is compiled, from best to worst, of platforms you can trust to successfully conduct collectibles commerce on, it is rather obvious which site will always occupy the space at the very bottom.


Now, we take you back to your regularly scheduled thread...

[4reals]

Just saw them. Horrible fakes in person. A fake 69 ryan as well. He even had a fake 86 topps traded bonds, lol.


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[G1911]

Originally Posted by 4reals

Just saw them. Horrible fakes in person. A fake 69 ryan as well. He even had a fake 86 topps traded bonds, lol.


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Please tell me you took a picture of the fake 86 Bonds, for some reason that’s hilarious. I didn’t know they even existed

[4reals]

Originally Posted by G1911

Please tell me you took a picture of the fake 86 Bonds, for some reason that’s hilarious. I didn’t know they even existed

I didn’t but the 69 Topps Ryan fake was so bad that it was basically a xeroxed copy of a card in bad condition. It had a picture of a dog eared corner that felt smooth if that makes sense. It had a picture of a crease, but you couldn’t feel the crease. I kept telling him how fake it was, and he just kept saying how he was going to submit it for grading. I just shook my head and was like, peace!


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[quitcrab]

In the past… sense of touch for me is the dead giveaway of knowing it’s a fake.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by quitcrab

In the past… sense of touch for me is the dead giveaway of knowing it’s a fake.

Don't forget the smell!