Dealers' Pricing at the National

Johnny630 · #1 06-10-2023, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Makes you question why they'd spend all that time and money to set up at the show. I know I wouldn't, especially if my table space wasn't proximally conducive to walk-ins looking to sell.

I think some of it is they made a killing on cards during the pandemic and banked or invested that money in the stock market. All this talk about a crash and hard landing recession never happened..the stock market is on track this year to do quite well, inflation is coming down and will continue further lower. The economy is not as bad as some media wants you to believe..sure cards are down a little but other then commercial real estate the us is still doing quite well. People are still traveling, and vacationing in record numbers.

ClementeFanOh · #2 06-10-2023, 08:01 AM

I have attended somewhere in the neighborhood of a dozen Nationals. It's
been my experience that it's easy to find the "my cards are magically more
valuable than everyone else's of the same grade" dealers. However, the
notion that good deals are "impossible" to find or that "dealers always have
the upper hand" (??!!) hasn't been the case. So long as we are talking about
vintage or older and not new releases- which are a monstrosity I don't even
consider- I've found you can "comparison shop" effectively with a small
amount of organization. Be thorough, take notes on cards you want and
their cost/booth number. Most importantly, size up the guy on the other side
of the table. It's easy to thumb your nose at the guy who says "All prices
are firm", because others are likely to have what he's got while still
remembering the spirit of the word "market". There consistently have
been good finds if you are willing to log the miles on your shoes.

Trent King

Exhibitman · #3 06-10-2023, 08:29 AM

�I�m into it for more than that�. In the vernacular of Gen Z, that�s a �you� problem, not a �me� problem. The fact that you made a bad investment is not pertinent to what the card is worth here, now, today. If you are selling a card, you must recognize the market price at that point, sell it and take your financial lumps. Otherwise, you are in the card display business.

�I would lose money on this card.� The fact that I would lose money on one card is not a good metric for whether to make a deal. The proper consideration is whether it is dead inventory. If I have held a card for some time and it is not moving and not growing in price, I dump it and get my money working again.

raulus · #4 06-10-2023, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

�I�m into it for more than that�. In the vernacular of Gen Z, that�s a �you� problem, not a �me� problem. The fact that you made a bad investment is not pertinent to what the card is worth here, now, today. If you are selling a card, you must recognize the market price at that point, sell it and take your financial lumps. Otherwise, you are in the card display business.

�I would lose money on this card.� The fact that I would lose money on one card is not a good metric for whether to make a deal. The proper consideration is whether it is dead inventory. If I have held a card for some time and it is not moving and not growing in price, I dump it and get my money working again.

I�m starting to wonder if this excuse is not the real reason why they don�t want to sell at this price. Because using this excuse is just easier than trying to argue about what it�s really worth.

It seems like in most negotiations, there�s the reason provided, and then there�s the real reason. This one feels more like the reason provided to me.

But I suppose for some people it could actually be their line of reasoning, particularly if they�ve heard it said enough times by others, and they decide it�s their actual reason�

edhans · #5 06-10-2023, 09:32 AM

I always get a hearty chuckle out of these threads. This will be my 16th consecutive National; all as a dealer. I think I can count on the thumbs of one hand the number of colleagues who said they were disappointed in their sales. So despite those "exorbitantly high prices", dealers have sufficient sales to make their time, effort and expense worth it.

I think there's an important distinction being overlooked here. If you're looking for a 1965 Mantle in PSA 7 or better, you'll find several dozen to choose from in Chicago. It's not a rare card. By all means ridicule the dealer whose price is double that of the dealer two rows over and won't negotiate. If you're considering a G&B, Old Judge cabinet, E107 HOFer, E271

, T214, etc... and are using ten year old VCP data, then you're sure to be disappointed and may be inclined to bemoan those money-grubbing dealers asking such ridiculous prices. Rare cards can't simply be replaced in the next big auction. Be prepared to pay a premium for them.

Exhibitman · #6 06-10-2023, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edhans

I think there's an important distinction being overlooked here. If you're looking for a 1965 Mantle in PSA 7 or better, you'll find several dozen to choose from in Chicago. It's not a rare card. By all means ridicule the dealer whose price is double that of the dealer two rows over and won't negotiate. If you're considering a G&B, Old Judge cabinet, E107 HOFer, E271

, T214, etc... and are using ten year old VCP data, then you're sure to be disappointed and may be inclined to bemoan those money-grubbing dealers asking such ridiculous prices. Rare cards can't simply be replaced in the next big auction. Be prepared to pay a premium for them.

This.

Absolute rarity is wonderful. When you have a truly rare item, you can set the price and hold out to get it. I've had buyers try everything they could think of, from inapposite comps to appeals to sentiment, to get a rare card from me. Nope. That is the beauty of owing a rare item: my way or the highway. On the other hand, trying to figure out a price for an absolutely rare card is very challenging and there is a lot of FOMO on both sides when one comes up for sale. No one in the transaction knows for sure if they are making a good deal because there is no market record to speak of. That is also the fun of it: the buyer gets something wonderful and the seller gets a price that makes him happy. So yeah, if you are chasing a card with a few known examples, if you find one at all, you are not gonna find it on discount at any show. I've never once regretted stepping up and buying a rare item at the National; I've very much regretted passing on some of them (damn you to hell, Eddie Collins decal mini-bat!). Ditto selling them. The stuff I wish I still had...Ugh. I am gonna write a column of big fish story regrets. Maybe I will call it "rare cards that were in my hands and I sold them because I am an idiot."

rhettyeakley · #7 06-11-2023, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edhans

I always get a hearty chuckle out of these threads. This will be my 16th consecutive National; all as a dealer. I think I can count on the thumbs of one hand the number of colleagues who said they were disappointed in their sales. So despite those "exorbitantly high prices", dealers have sufficient sales to make their time, effort and expense worth it.

I think there's an important distinction being overlooked here. If you're looking for a 1965 Mantle in PSA 7 or better, you'll find several dozen to choose from in Chicago. It's not a rare card. By all means ridicule the dealer whose price is double that of the dealer two rows over and won't negotiate. If you're considering a G&B, Old Judge cabinet, E107 HOFer, E271

, T214, etc... and are using ten year old VCP data, then you're sure to be disappointed and may be inclined to bemoan those money-grubbing dealers asking such ridiculous prices. Rare cards can't simply be replaced in the next big auction. Be prepared to pay a premium for them.

Well said!

For me, there are always more cards to buy at the National than I usually have money. If you have the time and intestinal fortitude to look for them deals are always there. It can be a grind though and you need to have a pretty wide area of expertise. If you are extremely focused on a specialized collection then you will likely come away with very little.

In other words�Tons of bargains to be had if you look around and know what things typically sell for�if you are looking for T206 in grades 4 to 4.5 with yellow backgrounds of American League players in PSA holders from even # aisles� you may have a problem! 🤣

Our perspective shapes our reality.

rhettyeakley · #8 06-11-2023, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edhans

I always get a hearty chuckle out of these threads. This will be my 16th consecutive National; all as a dealer. I think I can count on the thumbs of one hand the number of colleagues who said they were disappointed in their sales. So despite those "exorbitantly high prices", dealers have sufficient sales to make their time, effort and expense worth it.

I think there's an important distinction being overlooked here. If you're looking for a 1965 Mantle in PSA 7 or better, you'll find several dozen to choose from in Chicago. It's not a rare card. By all means ridicule the dealer whose price is double that of the dealer two rows over and won't negotiate. If you're considering a G&B, Old Judge cabinet, E107 HOFer, E271

, T214, etc... and are using ten year old VCP data, then you're sure to be disappointed and may be inclined to bemoan those money-grubbing dealers asking such ridiculous prices. Rare cards can't simply be replaced in the next big auction. Be prepared to pay a premium for them.

Well said!

For me, there are always more cards to buy at the National than I usually have money. If you have the time and intestinal fortitude to look for them deals are always there. It can be a grind though and you need to have a pretty wide area of expertise. If you are extremely focused on a specialized collection then you will likely come away with very little.

In other words�Tons of bargains to be had if you look around and know what things typically sell for�if you are looking for T206 in grades 4 to 4.5 with yellow backgrounds of American League players in PSA holders from even # aisles� you may have a problem! 🤣

Our perspective shapes our reality.

bbsports · #9 06-10-2023, 08:40 AM

I read these comments and I came to this conclusion. True, raw vintage has slowed down because there is a lot of it around. However, graded vintage in 8's and higher sell for much more because of the lower pop. They have gone up higher in price. On tobacco cards, it's grades 5 and higher. I've only done a half a dozen Nationals, but as mostly a tobacco cards seller, I tell new customers not to buy from the first day. I tell them to write my booth number down and walk around the rest of the day. Come back the next day and then we do business. The most common line that a customer says at at the National is "Can you do better?" Most dealers try to acknowledge the customer. A few may say that sales are firm. I send very few cards to auction houses. I like selling rare and high grade cards at the National. It makes my booth much more special. I wish all customers the best at the National and success to all the dealers. Hopefully this National will break all attendance records.

Snapolit1 · #10 06-10-2023, 08:55 AM

In hindsight I made a few collossal blunders at past Nationals. Some guy wanted $6000 for a 1932 US Caramel Gehrig. PSA 6. Wouldn't take plastic and I wasn't heading out into Chicago to round up 60 $100 bills. No ATM in the world will give you that much cash, so I would have likely had to go into town and found a Chase bank somewhere that was open. A ridiculous hassle, but looking at the price of that card today maybe I should have figured it out.

glynparson · #11 06-16-2023, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

In hindsight I made a few collossal blunders at past Nationals. Some guy wanted $6000 for a 1932 US Caramel Gehrig. PSA 6. Wouldn't take plastic and I wasn't heading out into Chicago to round up 60 $100 bills. No ATM in the world will give you that much cash, so I would have likely had to go into town and found a Chase bank somewhere that was open. A ridiculous hassle, but looking at the price of that card today maybe I should have figured it out.

You also can go to the casino right down the road they usually have hi limit atms that will give you a lot more than standard atms.

Seven · #12 06-10-2023, 08:56 AM

Last National, as the convention went on, I was able to get reasonable prices on a couple of different Mantle's that I purchased. I think if there's a will there's a way, it just requires a lot of searching and negotiating. I was walking an easy 15K steps a day at the convention center alone just moving around.

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