Fractional Ownership Not such a Good idea after all?

[jfkheat]

Didn't Evan Mathis try to do this a few years ago??

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

Didn't Evan Mathis try to do this a few years ago??

I thought this IS Evan's business

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I thought this IS Evan's business

He can Just trim more cards amd sell to cover the losses.

I'm rooting for speculators to get their due. We need a flush to get the (proverbial) turds outta the bowl

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

He can Just trim more cards amd sell to cover the losses.

I'm rooting for speculators to get their due. We need a flush to get the (proverbial) turds outta the bowl

And he can sell the trimmed pieces for a mark up as the new fractional share

[Tyruscobb]

What ever happened to that FL investment broker member? The one who collected wrestling cards. I can’t remember his name. He thought fractional card ownership was the best thing since sliced bread.

[raulus]

Obviously the concept works fine if there is a deep pool with lots of churn and the house can take a fee on every transaction, sort of like if we all traded houses every year and realtors took a commission on all of those sales. And if prices are going nuts, then anybody who's anybody can get in and make a killing.

But if the concept languishes with a small pool of die hard acolytes, and the rest of us opting out, then at some point the business model just isn't worth the squeeze.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

What ever happened to that FL investment broker member? The one who collected wrestling cards. I can’t remember his name. He thought fractional card ownership was the best thing since sliced bread.

That is me. I did want to invest in the 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 10. I decided not to but those who did made out great. Close to 25% net return in less than a year.

If you followed Collectable they turned over loads of cards early on at large profits to their shareholders. Selling these assets and earning transaction fees vs. ongoing fees was probably to their detriment.

The collapse from the huge run up to me is more of the issue as many piled in and as so many cards that had parabolic price moves declined the investors were left sitting on large losses and I would assume that made it harder to attract new investors to purchase future deals.

I think also the price declines have probably made it harder to attract new items being consigned.

The price run ups the industry saw were unprecedented and the price declines in many cases have been just as dramatic.

Longer term I would imagine fractional ownership is here to stay. Art, high end collector cars, sports memorabilia all make sense for smaller time players to participate on items they simply can’t afford.

I at the time said it was a game changer and it was and helped fuel the boom. I like to own cards and have them in my possession but the rational for some to simply invest in a particular item they cannot own on their own makes sense to me and why these platforms exist. High end art has been very effective using this concept and if you look at the items Collectable turned over the Wilt Chamberlain Warrior’s uniform was a huge winner.

The shakeout in the industry is obviously underway with this news and the news about PWCC today but the amount of activity you see at shows and on social media is very strong and I think the hobby will adjust and move forward.

[JustinD]

All these focused on the indefensible belief that collectables could never return to their pre-covid pricing. There is no logic other than prayers and wishes that that would happen and more. Especially as we slide rapidly into an economy that continues to slow and an administration that foams at the mouth when it comes to taxing the living hell out of any fiscal transactions. To the extreme of proposing taxing unrealized profits and leaving out my claims of unrealized losses as things drop, lol.

Evan Mathis, Nat Turner and Geoff Wilson, the "greatest of investors", have taken it on the chin for months as they realize life has no guarantees. "Dibbs" has been a dumpster fire, Attempting to sell collectable backed NFTs at peak value as NFTs in general circle the toilet. The backing material has lost so much value that no one will be profiting.

Here's the promised giant mojo wins - https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...tplace-closes/

We are heading for the reckoning for these flippers and they can tell the stories of losing millions for years.

The fun of this is I will be buying all the "Bored Apes" that people have for 20 bucks next year after they sold for 2.5 million just because I want to.

[Snapolit1]

Like most things, a great idea when prices are soaring crazy. Not so much when they crash down to earth.

Never had any interest in the idea, but I don't see where buying 1/5000 of a card for $500 is any stupider than buying an entire card for $2.5M. If it goes up, great deal. If it doesnt, not so much. Seems to be the exact same concept behind mutual funds.

[rjackson44]

There doing this with high end art my mom says to me ,folks are really really stupid

[Snapolit1]

As my dad used to say, "if it's such a great deal, why are they offering it to you?"

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I don't see where buying 1/5000 of a card for $500 is any stupider than buying an entire card for $2.5M. If it goes up, great deal. If it doesnt, not so much. Seems to be the exact same concept behind mutual funds.

The problem is that the “investors” were underwater from the beginning. The fair market $2.5M card received a premium pricing increase (e.g. to $3.0M) before the shares were purchased and distributed. Thus, the “investors” needed significant appreciation just to get back to the cards real word market value.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

The problem is that the “investors” were underwater from the beginning. The fair market $2.5M card received a premium pricing increase (e.g. to $3.0M) before the shares were purchased and distributed. Thus, the “investors” needed significant appreciation just to get back to the cards real word market value.

That’s impossible. I was assured by pumpers that this was free money. Pure profit baby

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Like most things, a great idea when prices are soaring crazy. Not so much when they crash down to earth.

Never had any interest in the idea, but I don't see where buying 1/5000 of a card for $500 is any stupider than buying an entire card for $2.5M. If it goes up, great deal. If it doesnt, not so much. Seems to be the exact same concept behind mutual funds.

I invest in Mutual Funds. It's different from Collectables. I invest in Large Cap funds, International Large Cap funds, and also one Environmental Conscious fund, plus the Retirement 2055 fund. At the end of the year, Dividends are paid out for the mutual fund owning XYZ shares. That number is then divided by the number of mutual fund shares and paid out to shareholders as additional shares of the fund. So I always own the mutual fund, and I receive additional shares at the end of the year, and when I want to sell my mutual fund shares I can. When the market is down, my share value is down, but the dividends have continued. When the market is up, my share value increases and the dividends continue. If it's seen as a long term investment, then the ROI is worth it. Whereas in Collectables, the flippers were looking for quick money.

[sb1]

While I totally agree with your concept, it's highly important to note that one should hold mutual funds in a tax free Roth or SEP, Simple or other tax deferred account. Holding them in a taxable account will generate taxable income each and every year, some with large capital gains, even though you have not sold a nickels worth. ETF's would be the better choice, same make up of companies or sectors, but much more tax efficient.