One more way to ruin the hobby - fractional ownership

[Throttlesteer]

I know it's been mentioned, but SCD just posted an article about this nonsense. It just seems this hobby has become such a dog and pony show lately. I'm curious to hear what others think about owning "shares" of a high-grade 1952 Mantle or T206 Wagner.

[NYHighlanderFan]

Isn’t that what Gretzky did with Bruce McNall back in the 1990’s?

[wondo]

A great idea - it's the only way I could buy a plane!

[D. Bergin]

I'm sure it would rope tons of people in. Who would be in charge of the oversight in this scheme? The Foxes or the Hens?

Bitcoin for Baseball Cards is about what this sounds like.

Somebody will certainly make a lot of money on this idea. More will lose.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by NYHighlanderFan

Isn’t that what Gretzky did with Bruce McNall back in the 1990’s?

I don’t think going in on a card with another friend is the same as this model?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

I know it's been mentioned, but SCD just posted an article about this nonsense. It just seems this hobby has become such a dog and pony show lately. I'm curious to hear what others think about owning "shares" of a high-grade 1952 Mantle or T206 Wagner.

Do you have actual reasons you think this will "ruin the hobby?"

[Bpm0014]

I'm looking for 200 members to go in 1/200th with me on a 1989 Fleer Gregg Jefferies rookie....

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

I'm looking for 200 members to go in 1/200th with me on a 1989 Fleer Gregg Jefferies rookie....

Haha, first thing I thought of for this thread. Jefferies specifically.......but I left that one on the cutting room floor.

[trdcrdkid]

Here is the article. I seem to remember something like this being proposed during the 1980s hobby boom. One question I have is whether shares in a card would be transferrable, like shares of stock, and if so whether they would trade on any kind of exchange. The fact that this guy is apparently doing a filing with the SEC makes me think the answer is yes.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...s-memorabilia/

Collectable Aims to Offer Shares of High-End Sports Memorabilia

August 7, 2019 By Rick Limpert

In 1602, when the Dutch East India Company issued the first shares of stock on items that were made tradeable on the Amsterdam Stock Exchange, little did these capital investors know that their business model would be used centuries later by passengers on private jets, yacht enthusiasts, vacationers– and now sports memorabilia collectors.

Collectable’s Jason Epstein says it’s about time.

Collectable has pivoted from first being an aggregator for auction companies, compiling online auction information and becoming a large database of trading card and memorabilia sales, to now allowing collectors to be fractional owners of some of the most high-end sports collectibles on the market.

An advisory board of industry-wide experts will select cards or memorabilia items for purchase based on desirability, scarcity, and market demand. Shares in the item will then be offered at a pre-determined price with an eye on making a profit for all once the item is re-sold. There will be no fees charged to the collector/investor who participates.

“Sports collectibles are highly desired and have proven to be superb investments,” explains Epstein, who as of this week ascended to COO of Collectable while thumbing through a stack of baseball cards from the 50’s and 60’s at the National Sports Collectors Convention in Chicago. “We give people a chance to own a high-end card like a 1952 Mantle graded 9. Not many people could afford that, so Collectable gives people to buy a share of that card for as low as $50.”

While Collectable may not be a carbon copy of a company like NetJets, Epstein, who likes the comparison, says there are some similarities.

While investors are fractional owners, unlike part owners of airplanes or yachts, they don’t get fractional use. However, they won’t be hidden away in a bank vault either.

“Right now, our plan is to have these items stored in one of three areas of the country,” says Epstein. (Locations would be) Miami, L.A. and New York. They will be in showrooms, where you can go and view them live.”

Epstein says the showrooms would be “museum-like” and that they want people to enjoy the pieces by being able to visit the items in which they’ve invested. While in possession of Collectable, the items would be 100% insured and bonded with 24/7 security in place.

Any item purchased would eventually be re-sold, hopefully for a profit shared by investors.

Decisions on selling will be conducted by vote. If an offer is made on an item and it seems like a reasonable offer, Collectable would alert the group and a vote would be held. If at least a 50% of the votes cast are to sell, it would then be sold.

“The goal is for the group to resell it,” adds Epstein. “They could sell it as quick as possible or hold for years.”

Epstein, an avid collector who has spent most of his career in real estate, says they expect the program to be up and running by the end of 2019.

“The focus will be on modern baseball and basketball as that has the most demand right now. Everything we plan on selling will be graded and authenticated by the top companies, but we will also have our own internal team of experts to back up their authentication.”

Epstein said SEC filings are now being completed.

He was attending the National for the first time and enjoyed seeing the mix of high-end shoppers and average collectors with smaller budgets sharing the same trading floor and talking about sports past and present. Making some of those big-ticket cards accessible in some form to the average Joes is something he’s looking forward to.

“This is what we all love. Sports. It brings families and teams together. Now we are aiming to bring collectors together.”

More information, including an early sign up option, is available at www.collectable.com.

[bounce]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

Shares in the item will then be offered at a pre-determined price with an eye on making a profit for all once the item is re-sold. There will be no fees charged to the collector/investor who participates.

While investors are fractional owners, unlike part owners of airplanes or yachts, they don’t get fractional use. However, they won’t be hidden away in a bank vault either.

Decisions on selling will be conducted by vote. If an offer is made on an item and it seems like a reasonable offer, Collectable would alert the group and a vote would be held. If at least a 50% of the votes cast are to sell, it would then be sold.

Epstein, an avid collector who has spent most of his career in real estate, says they expect the program to be up and running by the end of 2019.

He was attending the National for the first time and enjoyed seeing the mix of high-end shoppers and average collectors with smaller budgets sharing the same trading floor and talking about sports past and present. Making some of those big-ticket cards accessible in some form to the average Joes is something he’s looking forward to.

Let's see - so it's offered at a pre-determined price, but there are no fees? Well then how exactly do you pay for the insurance, the people, the showrooms, and certainly the "management" of this portfolio? What we can be certain of is that the buyers won't be paying just their pro-rata portion of the purchase price of the asset. Insert whatever word you want for "fees", but isn't that actually the easiest way to say it? Guess not...

So if buyers don't get fractional use, then actually comparison to NetJets isn't a very good one. But it sounds good!

So unless you have to be part of, and stay in, the "IPO" purchase of each asset, if the fractional shares can be exchanged at various times then it's safe to say each buyer will have different "basis" in the asset. That would very possibly give rise to the "vote" forcing some people into losses on their investment. That doesn't sound very good. And without rules of individuals/groups accumulating "majority ownership", again someone could be forced into an action they didn't want.

An avid collector, who was recently "promoted" to COO of a company, attending the National for the first time? Interesting.

I'm pretty confident the only people who will make out in the long run on this are the ones "managing" the portfolio. Let me be first, or I guess in this case second, to get in line for that job.

To answer one of the original questions - yes, something similar was discussed and maybe even offered (not sure on that) back in the height of the late 80s boom. It was a bad idea then, and it remains a bad idea today.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

I'm looking for 200 members to go in 1/200th with me on a 1989 Fleer Gregg Jefferies rookie....

I'm in!

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

I'm looking for 200 members to go in 1/200th with me on a 1989 Fleer Gregg Jefferies rookie....

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

I'm in!

Chumps.

Every investor of quality Jefferies cards knows his Fleer rookie is 1988.

[D. Bergin]

They could put all the micro-trimmed edges of PSA 7,8,9 and 10 52Topps Mantles on insert cards and also call that "fractional ownership". I mean, they already do that with other stuff. Bet they'd make a killing.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Do you have actual reasons you think this will "ruin the hobby?"

It's cumulative. But, what happens to the collector trying to find something fairly rare, only to find that the few examples are tied up in a fractional ownership of "investors". As previously stated, who provides the oversight for these "assets". They note that you can visit your investment, but most won't take the opportunity. You're trusting your money is tied up in what they say it is based on......? Maybe a Moser card? What happens if it goes missing? What's it insured for?

The general theme is that all of these wonderful ideas take the fun out of collecting. It's always about someone's get-rich-quick scheme.

[tribefan]

sounds like the old Cardtarget.com

[orioles70]

Unreal!!! I have a feeling the only people who will profit from this venture will be the ones who are paid for administration...bookkeeping, filing of tax returns, brokerage statements, etc...you wont be able to file your tax return until you receive your card brokerage statement showing your share of any gains or losses on sales

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[TheBig6]

Sounds To Complicated.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

One clear example, in my mind, of fractional ownership that has ruined the hobby is that PSA under Collectors Universe is a publicly traded company. Ultimately, PSA answers to the stockholders and the users of their service are secondary.

PSA engages in a service that is very subjective, and to keep cost low they offer a service of inspecting a card for typically 20 seconds without a rigorous, scientific program to detect alterations. The bottom line is meeting corporate objectives, so it's easy to see how a company like PSA get caught up in a scandal like this.

[Sean]

When I bought the Cobb Back I had to borrow $50,000 from my girlfriend. I offered her a 1/3 share in the card instead. She declined.

Not exactly the same as what is discussed in this article, but similar I think.

[Johnny630]

TOTAL KABOOKIE THEATER B to THE S

I have some Ocean Front Property in New Mexico you wanna own a fraction of it

[pologrounds]

Buying hobby dictionary that is PSA certified and Purple Sticker verified. Will pay above book.

[Leon]

Or instead of fractional all of the time ownership how about seasonal ownership, like a condo or something?

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

I know it's been mentioned, but SCD just posted an article about this nonsense. It just seems this hobby has become such a dog and pony show lately. I'm curious to hear what others think about owning "shares" of a high-grade 1952 Mantle or T206 Wagner.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Leon

Or instead of fractional all of the time ownership how about seasonal ownership, like a condo or something?

ya that whole timeshare thing seems to have worked out well for many!!!!