PWCC again F'ing up

[55koufax]

Yep, I am having the same issue with PWCC. I believe the issue started with their 4/9 auction. They have had my resale license on file since 2021, but sales tax was added to my invoice for their 4/9 auction.

I emailed them about the issue and included a copy of my resale license and details of when I originally had my resale license added to my account in 2021. They said accounting was working on it. It has been over a week with no update to my invoice...

Harold (Sonny) Smith

I communicated again today with PWCC, first, with an in house CSR, the one who yesterday promised me I would have a new invoice today, with the $40 worth of sales tax they added on removed. The rep acknowledged they had a "glitch" that deleted resale certificates. (Mine had been on account since well before they moved to OR). Well, seems she was either lying to me or totally clueless. Today, she emails me saying I will not get a correct invoice until I fill out new forms and send them a copy of my resale license again. Huh? The polar opposite of what she promised yesterday. What a pain! I then contact my assigned and real PWCC rep. I tell him what the other rep advised yesterday, and how today it is all different and basically "start over" with resale licenses. He never once apologizes to me, and tells me this is a good thing because they switched banks "so that we can loan and advance more money". OMG. I almost puked then and there. Because they switched banks all resale certificates have to be filed again. That sounds like BS. Anyway, this rep could care less about the inconvenience to clients. He could not even grasp how or why it would upset me that they would just willie nillie invoice me with sales tax. I had to explain to him that PWCC should have at the very least contacted me and all their clients B4HAND. An up front honest explanation is beyond them? Bottom line. Most all Net54ers are correct. PWCC is useless. I tried to give them an extra chance, or two. I canceled the invoice and told them sayanora...

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

I communicated again today with PWCC, first, with an in house CSR, the one who yesterday promised me I would have a new invoice today, with the $40 worth of sales tax they added on removed. The rep acknowledged they had a "glitch" that deleted resale certificates. (Mine had been on account since well before they moved to OR). Well, seems she was either lying to me or totally clueless. Today, she emails me saying I will not get a correct invoice until I fill out new forms and send them a copy of my resale license again. Huh? The polar opposite of what she promised yesterday. What a pain! I then contact my assigned and real PWCC rep. I tell him what the other rep advised yesterday, and how today it is all different and basically "start over" with resale licenses. He never once apologizes to me, and tells me this is a good thing because they switched banks "so that we can loan and advance more money". OMG. I almost puked then and there. Because they switched banks all resale certificates have to be filed again. That sounds like BS. Anyway, this rep could care less about the inconvenience to clients. He could not even grasp how or why it would upset me that they would just willie nillie invoice me with sales tax. I had to explain to him that PWCC should have at the very least contacted me and all their clients B4HAND. An up front honest explanation is beyond them? Bottom line. Most all Net54ers are correct. PWCC is useless. I tried to give them an extra chance, or two. I canceled the invoice and told them sayanora...

Totally ridiculous, you did the right thing.

I wonder if others will get tired of the nonsense and be done with them.

[G1911]

Fraud ring = that’s fine, do business with them.

Minor personal inconvenience and having to send a form again = done with them!


I don’t get it, but I don’t have to get it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Fraud ring = that’s fine, do business with them.

Minor personal inconvenience and having to send a form again = done with them!


I don’t get it, but I don’t have to get it.

This hobby is full of contradictions my friend. The card is altered, and was shilled, but damn it he got it to me in just three days so all is well.

If you ship timely, and don't overcharge for postage (still the number one sin in the hobby apparently), the rest don't matter much.

And yeah avoid PWCC and think you're being virtuous, when 80 percent of the others you are dealing with are just as bad.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This hobby is full of contradictions my friend. The card is altered, and was shilled, but damn it he got it to me in just three days so all is well.

If you ship timely, and don't overcharge for postage (still the number one sin in the hobby apparently), the rest don't matter much.

And yeah avoid PWCC and think you're being virtuous, when 80 percent of the others you are dealing with are just as bad.

I get what you mean, but I would posit that there is not much virtue in it sir; I consider it largely selfish and unvirtuous self-interest to not deal with fraud rings, scammers, library thieves, shillers, opinion sellers of demonstrable incompetence, et alia. Lay with a snake, and you risk being bit in more ways than one. Opens myself to risk, and while one is not guilty by association it does not reflect well on or benefit one to so associate, like Catullus' auctioneer.

I suppose it is a low risk version of the same self-interest that drives people to ignore massive fraud rings and conduct business with them. On the other hand I say this from a place of privilege, I've crossed off the top of my want list and nothing left do I feel I really truly 'need' for my poor little collection. And so no REA account, no Heritage, no Probstein bidding, no PWCC, no Memory Lane, no PSA and SGC and Beckett etc. and so on is not so much a sacrifice. Friends, randoms on eBay I don't have reason to think to be crooked, a couple local dealers and some from here I have not seen conducting unethical business practices that would create risk for me. It's also just more fun when the hobby is a lighthearted joy than Faustian dealing to win more registry points.

I'm sure I'll get ripped off eventually anyways...

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by G1911

I'm sure I'll get ripped off eventually anyways...

Ignorance is truly bliss. If you never know, then you will keep buying.

The issue I cant wrap my head around is how can people knowingly deal with PWCC and not have that little voice tugging at them asking "what if". On big money cards, where people have liquidated their 401ks and sold assets to purchase cards, they may have put their future and family at peril, and they sleep well at night?

[steve B]

I don't know about other states, but here the resale tax exempt form needs to be sent each year. It's surprising how many business owners don't know that.

Typically it's let slide though, I used to just give people a reminder when they bought stuff, like "Hey, your resale cert is out of date just send me a new one when you get a chance. "
Never had anyone have a problem with that, but then I didn't tax them.
I had one place get cranky about it, but filled out a new one at the pickup counter and learned they were fussy about the resale forms because they were being audited.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Ignorance is truly bliss. If you never know, then you will keep buying.

The issue I cant wrap my head around is how can people knowingly deal with PWCC and not have that little voice tugging at them asking "what if". On big money cards, where people have liquidated their 401ks and sold assets to purchase cards, they may have put their future and family at peril, and they sleep well at night?

It's the same mentality as the card bro's - 'I'm smarter and I will win the game'. Sometimes they will, and sometimes they won't.

Though I sincerely doubt any of the pumpers advocating for other people to go into debt and literally empty their 401K's to put everything into cards do this themselves. They just need more people to keep buying in so their portfolio rises, and say whatever promotes that.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by G1911

Fraud ring = that’s fine, do business with them.

Minor personal inconvenience and having to send a form again = done with them!


I don’t get it, but I don’t have to get it.

I was thinking the exact same thing while reading this thread.

[MBMiller25]

There is fraud all throughout this hobby. If you all sleep better thinking it’s relegated to just PWCC, that’s your decision. I learned really quickly when I tried to take the virtuous road and sold many HUGE cards thinking this market was about to bust a few years ago when the trimming scandal came to light that this “hobby” (if you want to call it that anymore) is going to just keep moving on irregardless what a bunch of board members opinions are.

The numbers don’t lie, the sheer growth in number of items in their weekly auctions show they are growing, not dying. We can find fault in any and every seller, it’s just the nature of the beast with anything involving money.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MBMiller25

There is fraud all throughout this hobby.

Amen.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by MBMiller25

There is fraud all throughout this hobby. If you all sleep better thinking it’s relegated to just PWCC, that’s your decision. I learned really quickly when I tried to take the virtuous road and sold many HUGE cards thinking this market was about to bust a few years ago when the trimming scandal came to light that this “hobby” (if you want to call it that anymore) is going to just keep moving on irregardless what a bunch of board members opinions are.

The numbers don’t lie, the sheer growth in number of items in their weekly auctions show they are growing, not dying. We can find fault in any and every seller, it’s just the nature of the beast with anything involving money.

I don't think a single person has ever argued, in any PWCC thread on this board ever, that fraud is relegated to PWCC alone. It's just that it is exceptionally broad and obvious in their case and no one can credibly claim that they do not know. Where has anyone said PWCC is the only bad actor?

Numbers don't lie (well, they do when they are shilled and the shiller 'wins' to produce the new top sale that gets the pumpers juiced)... but they also don't prove things beyond the numbers. I have little doubt that PWCC's business is doing well. That does not change the fact they have been running a fraud ring and this is unattractive to some potential buyers. It's not 'finding fault in any and every seller' when they got caught with literally thousands of publicized examples of fraud. This is not some nitpick standard here.

If one wants to continue to deal with PWCC, more power to them. But we don't need to completely make things up to defend it.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

I communicated again today with PWCC, first, with an in house CSR, the one who yesterday promised me I would have a new invoice today, with the $40 worth of sales tax they added on removed. The rep acknowledged they had a "glitch" that deleted resale certificates. (Mine had been on account since well before they moved to OR). Well, seems she was either lying to me or totally clueless. Today, she emails me saying I will not get a correct invoice until I fill out new forms and send them a copy of my resale license again. Huh? The polar opposite of what she promised yesterday. What a pain! I then contact my assigned and real PWCC rep. I tell him what the other rep advised yesterday, and how today it is all different and basically "start over" with resale licenses. He never once apologizes to me, and tells me this is a good thing because they switched banks "so that we can loan and advance more money". OMG. I almost puked then and there. Because they switched banks all resale certificates have to be filed again. That sounds like BS. Anyway, this rep could care less about the inconvenience to clients. He could not even grasp how or why it would upset me that they would just willie nillie invoice me with sales tax. I had to explain to him that PWCC should have at the very least contacted me and all their clients B4HAND. An up front honest explanation is beyond them? Bottom line. Most all Net54ers are correct. PWCC is useless. I tried to give them an extra chance, or two. I canceled the invoice and told them sayanora...

This sounds as though someone effed up and the lost a bunch of data. Instead of having their IT contractors work to restore it, they've decided to just have all their clients resend their information and someone will re-enter it.

Poor decision, but something you see often where the client or users are inconvenienced because IT cannot or won't figure out an answer.

Further, the person you were talking with is likely just relaying the information they were given.

[parkplace33]

Collectors can do what they want but I continue to go back to this news story from August 2021:

Trading card marketplace PWCC has been suspended by eBay for "shill bidding" — the practice of artificially boosting the price of an item through dishonest bids.

Why it matters: One of the industry's biggest players getting rocked by scandal could have deleterious effects on the card-collecting hobby, which is built largely on trust.

The backdrop: Trading cards are in the midst of a meteoric rise. The 10 most expensive cards in history have all been sold since last August.

Details: eBay "restricted PWCC's selling privileges" this week, removing more than 71,000 listings from its website.

Shill bidding, explained: The seller enlists friends and family, or uses aliases, to drive the item price higher than it would have gone if a legitimate buyer bid and purchased it.
PWCC denies any wrongdoing, and is weighing all available legal options to fight the accusation. The company did over $200 million in sales on eBay last year alone, per the Action Network.
The big picture: This isn't the first time PWCC has found itself in hot water. It's also the subject of an ongoing FBI investigation stemming from a 2019 "trimming" scandal, which involves doctoring cards to increase their grade, thus inflating their sale price.

That relationship between grading and selling is illustrative of card collecting's biggest risk: it relies on various cogs — producers like Topps, marketplaces like PWCC, grading agencies like PSA — working together in harmony.
If eBay's allegations are true, PWCC could be shunned by the industry. Multiple competitors have already pounced on the chance to wrestle customers away from them.

[RhodeyRhode]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Collectors can do what they want but I continue to go back to this news story from August 2021:

Trading card marketplace PWCC has been suspended by eBay for "shill bidding" — the practice of artificially boosting the price of an item through dishonest bids.

Why it matters: One of the industry's biggest players getting rocked by scandal could have deleterious effects on the card-collecting hobby, which is built largely on trust.

The backdrop: Trading cards are in the midst of a meteoric rise. The 10 most expensive cards in history have all been sold since last August.

Details: eBay "restricted PWCC's selling privileges" this week, removing more than 71,000 listings from its website.

Shill bidding, explained: The seller enlists friends and family, or uses aliases, to drive the item price higher than it would have gone if a legitimate buyer bid and purchased it.
PWCC denies any wrongdoing, and is weighing all available legal options to fight the accusation. The company did over $200 million in sales on eBay last year alone, per the Action Network.
The big picture: This isn't the first time PWCC has found itself in hot water. It's also the subject of an ongoing FBI investigation stemming from a 2019 "trimming" scandal, which involves doctoring cards to increase their grade, thus inflating their sale price.

That relationship between grading and selling is illustrative of card collecting's biggest risk: it relies on various cogs — producers like Topps, marketplaces like PWCC, grading agencies like PSA — working together in harmony.
If eBay's allegations are true, PWCC could be shunned by the industry. Multiple competitors have already pounced on the chance to wrestle customers away from them.

The thing though is....how many others are doing the same thing?