SGC Registry – Why isn’t there one?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

With a 20 year first mover advantage now, and countless collectors committed to it, the PSA set registry is so entrenched I don't think anyone would even care if a competitor came along.

I think that is right. It would be an inside appeal to a competitor's base but not make a dent in PSA's standing within the hobby.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I think that is right. It would be an inside appeal to a competitor's base but not make a dent in PSA's standing within the hobby.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to have another registry, and might put SGC in a better position to capitalize if/when PSA stumbles.

In some ways, I like to think about the old monopoly that WordPerfect used to have in word processing software, with MS Word being little more than an afterthought. Most people were pretty locked into WordPerfect, enjoyed using it, memorized all of the silly function key shortcuts, etc. But eventually, WordPerfect began to stumble. Their product started losing functionality, and became riddled with bugs. Eventually, even the most die-hard supporters started to think it was time to consider an alternative.

Although they had to go kicking and screaming, in the end, even the biggest WordPerfect acolytes couldn't take it anymore, so WordPerfect died and MS Word conquered all. But if MS Word hadn't really made the effort to provide a solid product that could be a real alternative, then no one would have switched.

It usually takes some pretty big failures to get there. But the competition needs to have a compelling value proposition. Otherwise, no amount of failures by the market leader will really matter if the competition won't make the effort to really compete in all of the areas that the consumer values.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by raulus

It certainly wouldn't hurt to have another registry, and might put SGC in a better position to capitalize if/when PSA stumbles.

In some ways, I like to think about the old monopoly that WordPerfect used to have in word processing software, with MS Word being little more than an afterthought. Most people were pretty locked into WordPerfect, enjoyed using it, memorized all of the silly function key shortcuts, etc. But eventually, WordPerfect began to stumble. Their product started losing functionality, and became riddled with bugs. Eventually, even the most die-hard supporters started to think it was time to consider an alternative.

Although they had to go kicking and screaming, in the end, even the biggest WordPerfect acolytes couldn't take it anymore, so WordPerfect died and MS Word conquered all. But if MS Word hadn't really made the effort to provide a solid product that could be a real alternative, then no one would have switched.

It usually takes some pretty big failures to get there. But the competition needs to have a compelling value proposition. Otherwise, no amount of failures by the market leader will really matter if the competition won't make the effort to really compete in all of the areas that the consumer values.

Pretty much the exact same thing that happened to Lotus 1-2-3 after Excel came along.

And actually, on a certain level, Microsoft did sort of the same things that PSA's Registry did when they came up with their Microsoft Works bundle. At one time they offered it to all the different computer manufacturers who could have them pre-installed on computers they sold. People got so used to using Word and Excel that all the other similar software out there became pretty much abandoned by everyone. Just like the Registry sort of took over and placed PSA at the top of the TPG heap.

[BobC]

Isn't CSG supposed to have some kind of Registry in place, or working on one, as well? Obviously, they haven't been around and graded enough cards yet to make it more meaningful, and possibly allow them to be any competition to PSA's Registry, but if so, I guess they're working on it.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by BobC

Isn't CSG supposed to have some kind of Registry in place, or working on one, as well? Obviously, they haven't been around and graded enough cards yet to make it more meaningful, and possibly allow them to be any competition to PSA's Registry, but if so, I guess they're working on it.

BobC - is Leon charging you per word for your posts now?

Seriously though, does anyone know or have a stab at the percentage of PSA graded cards that are reflected in the registry? Just how big a role does it play?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

Seriously though, does anyone know or have a stab at the percentage of PSA graded cards that are reflected in the registry? Just how big a role does it play?

In some ways, I suspect that we're all looking at the historical premium paid for PSA graded items, and assuming that the Set Registry is driving some or all of that premium, mostly because there's probably not much to suggest that the quality of items with similar grades from other graders is really inferior.

Having said that, my sense is that the premium has narrowed more recently for some graders, particularly for some eras and issues. But there does continue to still be a spread, even if it's not universally the same spread always and everywhere.

I do think that the Set Registry could be a part of the story in that outcome. Another element could just be the fact that so many more items are graded by PSA, which tends to result in greater adoption, and a perception that their items are more widely collected, and therefore more easily sold.

One area where the Set Registry almost definitely has an impact is for items that are at the top of the scale, particularly if the pop count is really low, and it's for an inner-circle HOFer. PSA 10s for items in this category with a pop of 1 or 2 generally sell for astronomic sums, often much more than a similar item might sell if graded by another grader.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by raulus

It certainly wouldn't hurt to have another registry, and might put SGC in a better position to capitalize if/when PSA stumbles.

In some ways, I like to think about the old monopoly that WordPerfect used to have in word processing software, with MS Word being little more than an afterthought. Most people were pretty locked into WordPerfect, enjoyed using it, memorized all of the silly function key shortcuts, etc. But eventually, WordPerfect began to stumble. Their product started losing functionality, and became riddled with bugs. Eventually, even the most die-hard supporters started to think it was time to consider an alternative.

Although they had to go kicking and screaming, in the end, even the biggest WordPerfect acolytes couldn't take it anymore, so WordPerfect died and MS Word conquered all. But if MS Word hadn't really made the effort to provide a solid product that could be a real alternative, then no one would have switched.

It usually takes some pretty big failures to get there. But the competition needs to have a compelling value proposition. Otherwise, no amount of failures by the market leader will really matter if the competition won't make the effort to really compete in all of the areas that the consumer values.

Valid comments. PSA did have some epic fails recently but SGC did not seem to want to capitalize or think that they could. Maybe they are content being 2nd and are doing more than enough business. What we might want as end users might not mirror what management feels is warranted for one reason or another. Thinking about their not showing up to grade onsite at the National is one of those things.

Nothing would make me happier than for PSA to get some serious competition.

[ClementeFanOh]

To Lorewalker-

The post topic was an inquiry asking for opinions(!) on why SGC doesn't
make use of a set registry. I offered those opinions as part of the back and
forth on topic. I am not at all interested in "asking PSA if the buck was
worth the bang" for a number of reasons, most directly that I don't care
one bit about their registry. Perhaps you could do that for us and report
back in, say, a decade when you get a reply? While I did float an eye roll
toward a couple commenters' free PSA on behalf of PSA- see what I did
there?- it wasn't the point of the post.

Trent King

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

To Lorewalker-

The post topic was an inquiry asking for opinions(!) on why SGC doesn't
make use of a set registry. I offered those opinions as part of the back and
forth on topic. I am not at all interested in "asking PSA if the buck was
worth the bang" for a number of reasons, most directly that I don't care
one bit about their registry. Perhaps you could do that for us and report
back in, say, a decade when you get a reply? While I did float an eye roll
toward a couple commenters' free PSA on behalf of PSA- see what I did
there?- it wasn't the point of the post.

Trent King

Just curious but are you usually a di(k or only all of the time?

[G1911]

I think the registry plays little role in rare sets or superstar cards in low or mid grade, but it has entirely created the market for high grade commons and stars. Registry or having the best single is the only reason a 10 outsells a 9; I've yet to meet a single collector that can reliably separate 8/9/10 slabbed cards without seeing the slip. A mint Mantle was worth more than an EX Mantle before PSA, but the multiplier has skyrocketed and half the high grades are effectively imaginary.

Adding a registry wouldn't suddenly make SGC competitive; but it's one of the things you need to be competitive. Somebody will need to do something innovative to take over PSA, but they will also need 'the basics' and the infrastructure that PSA has to take over significant market share.

SGC has never seemed to have much interest in competing, or is a poorly run business. I'm not sure which.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

I think the registry plays little role in rare sets or superstar cards in low or mid grade, but it has entirely created the market for high grade commons and stars. Registry or having the best single is the only reason a 10 outsells a 9; I've yet to meet a single collector that can reliably separate 8/9/10 slabbed cards without seeing the slip. A mint Mantle was worth more than an EX Mantle before PSA, but the multiplier has skyrocketed and half the high grades are effectively imaginary.

Adding a registry wouldn't suddenly make SGC competitive; but it's one of the things you need to be competitive. Somebody will need to do something innovative to take over PSA, but they will also need 'the basics' and the infrastructure that PSA has to take over significant market share.

SGC has never seemed to have much interest in competing, or is a poorly run business. I'm not sure which.

Well, there is this:
3. Customer acknowledges and agrees that SGC’s owners and employees shall be permitted to submit items for grading and/or authentication without limitation. Furthermore, SGC’s owners and employees may buy, sell, and trade SGC authenticated or graded items without limitation.

Not exactly third party grading.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well, there is this:
3. Customer acknowledges and agrees that SGC’s owners and employees shall be permitted to submit items for grading and/or authentication without limitation. Furthermore, SGC’s owners and employees may buy, sell, and trade SGC authenticated or graded items without limitation.

Not exactly third party grading.

That's why I didn't call them third party . I have little but contempt for the circus of incompetence and almost open corruption plaguing both these firms. But nobody cares about ethics or collecting when there is $$$$ to be made, and so all is forgotten, swept under the rug, and a handful of us shake our fist at the sky.

The holders often present well and I would maybe consider them if they just sold the holders, but as is every graded card I get I liberate and I have never submitted a single card, nor will I.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

That's why I didn't call them third party . I have little but contempt for the circus of incompetence and almost open corruption plaguing both these firms. But nobody cares about ethics or collecting when there is $$$$ to be made, and so all is forgotten, swept under the rug, and a handful of us shake our fist at the sky.

The holders often present well and I would maybe consider them if they just sold the holders, but as is every graded card I get I liberate and I have never submitted a single card, nor will I.

IMO it's a pretty blatant conflict of interest but you're right nobody cares. Nor does anyone care that they went to random certs, not even PSA has done that. Or that they eliminated the guarantee. Just get those cards back on time and I'm good.