Ty Cobb and the hobby

[Directly]

No offense--but does everybody believe Ruth was a saint?--Both were the best, but??

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Directly

No offense--but does everybody believe Ruth was a saint?--Both were the best, but??

No, but for good or for bad, or for both, Ruth is probably the most iconic athlete the US has ever had. (I guess you could debate Jordan.) Multiple movies, dozens of books, legends, myths, elementary school books, plays, etc. While Cobb was a singularly great hitter, I just don't see him as the kind of mythical persona that Ruth embodied. Sort of like Michael Jordan and Larry Bird. Yes, Bird amazing. But Jordan grabbed the culture, hard core and casual fans, in a way Bird never did.

People like to project onto these people attributes and mythical powers. Mickey Mantle case study no 1. Hell, I'd say Mantle has captured the imagination of people more than Mays or Aaron.

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I'd say Mantle has captured the imagination of people more than Mays or Aaron.

Very true. Mantle is a top 5 "what if" player. The other guys' what ifs typically involve lost military service years, or not getting an opportunity due to racism, etc.

What if Mantle didn't step on that sprinkler head during the 1951 World Series and blow out his knee? What if he took better care of himself, and didn't party as much?

He may very well have ended up the greatest of all-time.

[Yoda]

In that interesting 'foto it appears that young Tyrus is about to buy a boatload of Coco Cola stock.

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

No, but for good or for bad, or for both, Ruth is probably the most iconic athlete the US has ever had. (I guess you could debate Jordan.) Multiple movies, dozens of books, legends, myths, elementary school books, plays, etc. While Cobb was a singularly great hitter, I just don't see him as the kind of mythical persona that Ruth embodied. Sort of like Michael Jordan and Larry Bird. Yes, Bird amazing. But Jordan grabbed the culture, hard core and casual fans, in a way Bird never did.

People like to project onto these people attributes and mythical powers. Mickey Mantle case study no 1. Hell, I'd say Mantle has captured the imagination of people more than Mays or Aaron.

Don't forget Ali.

[robw1959]

Don't forget that Cobb was a terrific outfielder as well. I think the answer to the OP has been pretty well summed up here. In 1936, he garnered more votes than any of the other Hall of Fame inaugurals including Ruth, who tied with Honus Wagner for second place.

[jsfriedm]

Originally Posted by robw1959

Don't forget that Cobb was a terrific outfielder as well.

What's the evidence for Cobb having been a terrific outfielder? I don't necessarily love WAR's defensive metrics, especially going that far back, but Baseball Reference has Cobb as being worth negative defensive WAR almost every year of his career, and -10.8 total.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

What's the evidence for Cobb having been a terrific outfielder? I don't necessarily love WAR's defensive metrics, especially going that far back, but Baseball Reference has Cobb as being worth negative defensive WAR almost every year of his career, and -10.8 total.

I believe in Charles Leerhsen's thorough research on Cobb, whom he credits as being an excellent fielder. He details Cobb as having had a tremendous arm, a good glove, and of course outstanding speed in tracking a baseball. Those WAR numbers don't always tell the correct story. Oddball rules and misinterpretations of errors could have accounted for those.

[Exhibitman]

[packs]

I like Cobb because the guy was a real ball player capable of playing in any time. I'm not sure anyone doubts that. Maybe he doesn't still hit 366 today but he would still outhit everybody else. He also played the game the way you'd want your son to play; with his head down and his spikes out.

He also clearly loved baseball in the same way that Rickey Henderson loved baseball. Ty played through age 41 and still hit 323 even in his final season.

[rickalaska]

Ty Cobb hit over .300 for 23 consecutive seasons

In fact, he could have gone 0-for-his-last-2,541 at bats and still had a .300 career average.

As one story goes, in the year before his death, Cobb was asked by a reporter how he would fare in the modern game.

“I’d hit about .300,” Cobb said.

The reporter was aghast. Ty Cobb? Only hitting .300?

“You’ve got to remember,” Cobb added, “I’m 73 years old!”