$117K SGC 8.5 DiMaggio WWG trimmed heavily, previously an SGC 6

[2dueces]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I know the pay-off is substantial, but I'm still shocked at the cajones of somebody to trim a card, that is already 20K+ card nowadays. They've gotta have a lot of confidence that it's gonna pass.

I don't even have the confidence to cut cards from sheets or strips that are meant to be cut, with my crappy Staples issued paper cutter . But I do understand that people with the right tools and skill-set, can make it seem imperceptible to most.

I've said this before, but I set-up at hundreds of shows in the 80's and into the early 90's, and truly vintage NM to Gem Mint cards, were very, very few...and far between...and most of those were also trimmed or flattened out in brick like lucite holders to make them look better then they actually were.

Even cards I pulled right out of packs, I had a hard time, in good conscience, calling them MINT. I'd always just call them NM to be on the safe side.

That they started to become more common, when these huge price fluctuations began to develop between mid-graded stuff and high graded stuff, has proven to be not such a coincidence I guess.

That Dimaggio "6" would have been the centerpiece of almost any dealers table, because that "8.5", would have never existed in the first place.

Altering cards is not NEW. Back in the 80's, dealers used to color in the borders of 71' Topps cards, to get an extra buck or two a card. Can you imagine what somebody would do for an extra 100K a card?

I know I sound like a broken record but in all the hundreds of T206’s at shows I never saw a Mint one in the 80’s. I’ve only seen a handful of near perfect ones that were found in books free from handling and yet they still would have had a hard time getting a 7 in today’s standards. I view every T206 above a 6 today with suspicion. Not saying all are tampered with just hard to believe thousands are that nice naturally

[steve B]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

I know I sound like a broken record but in all the hundreds of T206’s at shows I never saw a Mint one in the 80’s. I’ve only seen a handful of near perfect ones that were found in books free from handling and yet they still would have had a hard time getting a 7 in today’s standards. I view every T206 above a 6 today with suspicion. Not saying all are tampered with just hard to believe thousands are that nice naturally

I bought a handful of very nice ones back then, should have bought more. And these were from before toploaders etc.
Most graded between a 5 and 7. I'm sure there were some nicer, but not many.

I also got a few in what Looked to be a small original collection of T cards that literally came in a small paper bag. Same top end on those.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

I know I sound like a broken record but in all the hundreds of T206’s at shows I never saw a Mint one in the 80’s. I’ve only seen a handful of near perfect ones that were found in books free from handling and yet they still would have had a hard time getting a 7 in today’s standards. I view every T206 above a 6 today with suspicion. Not saying all are tampered with just hard to believe thousands are that nice naturally

You bring up a great point. I know many don't want to think this, but I am very wary of high graded cards, especially if they were just graded in the last few years. I am not saying all are bad, but you have to be vigilant.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

You bring up a great point. I know many don't want to think this, but I am very wary of high graded cards, especially if they were just graded in the last few years. I am not saying all are bad, but you have to be vigilant.

This.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bumping this once so it can get a little more airplay before, like all the other criminality in the hobby, it fades quickly into the past. Congratulations to the elite card doctor who trimmed it, whoever graded it (twice now it seems), and whoever is covering up for the perpetrator.. It's all good.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

the elite card doctor

The worst part is that it isn't even elite doctoring. Even I have a hard time blaming PSA for some of the micro trimming passing through on modern - such a tiny, tiny sliver is so carefully cut and the edges are so fresh that almost no one can tell without deep dives into a cards prior scans. But we see time and time again you can just lop off giant chunks of old cards and eventually PSA will pass it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

The worst part is that it isn't even elite doctoring. Even I have a hard time blaming PSA for some of the micro trimming passing through on modern - such a tiny, tiny sliver is so carefully cut and the edges are so fresh that almost no one can tell without deep dives into a cards prior scans. But we see time and time again you can just lop off giant chunks of old cards and eventually PSA will pass it.

This is how the hobby works. Card doctors alter cards. TPGs grade many of those cards, sometimes they're fooled, sometimes it's something else. And most auction houses will accept those cards even knowing the reputation of the consignor. Just how it is. Only law enforcement has a chance of making a dent. As the song from Evita goes, the money keeps rolling in.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This is how the hobby works. Card doctors alter cards. TPGs grade many of those cards, sometimes they're fooled, sometimes it's something else. And most auction houses will accept those cards even knowing the reputation of the consignor. Just how it is. Only law enforcement has a chance of making a dent. As the song from Evita goes, the money keeps rolling in.

I agree, but I just wish that they would at least put in a little effort in making it less obvious. Treat it with some discretion. If you're going to scam people and commit fraud, at least don't be transparent about it. If you're posing as a competent authenticator, at least don't certify the really, really obvious and poorly executed frauds. Have some standards, you know?