Black Swamp Find? Tell me more!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Lots of questions and there are answers but I doubt we will ever get them. Just a guess but if HA took the position that lead us all to believe that what they graded was the entire find, I could see how it might not be a great move to then accept the other half of the deal 7 years later. Or that they did not know there was another half and turned down the consignment but then why not go to another house.

Does anyone know what the 750 cards grossed out of Heritage over the years? I know that there were dozens of Cobbs and Wagners from the back half and if I am not mistaken Mathis got a PSA 10 on each with plenty of 9s and 8s.

Did you watch that Strange Inheritance episode about the find that someone linked to earlier in the thread? Don't know exactly how many cards it shows as being sold through Heritage, but they talked about an original estimated value of $3M I believe for the cards in the Find, and at one point the show mentioned the family having gotten about $1.8M or so, so far, from what was being sold through Heritage. What I don't know now was how many of the original 750 or so cards were sold to get to that sales amount, or if the $3M estimate was what Heritage was telling the family was for the 750 or so original cards they consigned to them, or if that included the cards on the back-half of the Find as well. Again, some answers, but still a lot of unanswered questions remain.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

Did you watch that Strange Inheritance episode about the find that someone linked to earlier in the thread? Don't know exactly how many cards it shows as being sold through Heritage, but they talked about an original estimated value of $3M I believe for the cards in the Find, and at one point the show mentioned the family having gotten about $1.8M or so, so far, from what was being sold through Heritage. What I don't know now was how many of the original 750 or so cards were sold to get to that sales amount, or if the $3M estimate was what Heritage was telling the family was for the 750 or so original cards they consigned to them, or if that included the cards on the back-half of the Find as well. Again, some answers, but still a lot of unanswered questions remain.

Yeah I did watch it when it was on TV, actually. When I go to Heritage's site there are cards in PSA and SGC holders (new labels and old labels) with the BSF provenance so I am not sure how to get a tally or if one can even be gotten.

Also does not appear they have sold 750 of them even to this day. There are 3 or n a current auction ending tomorrow, in fact, and not sure if these were previously sold and consigned a second time or if they are being offered for the first time.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Yeah I did watch it when it was on TV, actually. When I go to Heritage's site there are cards in PSA and SGC holders (new labels and old labels) with the BSF provenance so I am not sure how to get a tally or if one can even be gotten.

Also does not appear they have sold 750 of them even to this day. There are 3 or n a current auction ending tomorrow, in fact, and not sure if these were previously sold and consigned a second time or if they are being offered for the first time.

LOL

We'll likely never know then. The family did get some serious money from the inheritance though, but spreading it among 20 or so different cousins, no one got really rich from it. Still a great story though, but definitely changed they way people look at and collect E98 cards today.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by BobC

LOL

We'll likely never know then. The family did get some serious money from the inheritance though, but spreading it among 20 or so different cousins, no one got really rich from it. Still a great story though, but definitely changed they way people look at and collect E98 cards today.

110 year old cards should look like they've been handled, bumps, bruises, and a little dirty. The beauty of a century+ card is the journey from 1910 to your collection. Amazing that any of them survived at all.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

110 year old cards should look like they've been handled, bumps, bruises, and a little dirty. The beauty of a century+ card is the journey from 1910 to your collection. Amazing that any of them survived at all.

True that!

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

LOL

We'll likely never know then. The family did get some serious money from the inheritance though, but spreading it among 20 or so different cousins, no one got really rich from it. Still a great story though, but definitely changed they way people look at and collect E98 cards today.

It is a great story and a great find. Even for non collectors it had to be exhilarating to have found them.

And just to keep in tradition with our discussion...so was it 20 relatives that split up the Heritage proceeds or just half or less than half of that figure? Still, not a ton of money but it is found money with no tax implication, correct? Step up in basis?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

It is a great story and a great find. Even for non collectors it had to be exhilarating to have found them.

And just to keep in tradition with our discussion...so was it 20 relatives that split up the Heritage proceeds or just half or less than half of that figure? Still, not a ton of money but it is found money with no tax implication, correct? Step up in basis?

Well, all the stories I had heard and seen talked about 20 or so cousins that would share in the inheritance. Now if they were all sharing equally, or maybe some had bigger shares coming than others, I don't know for sure. I'm assuming/guessing the aunt died intestate, and so the Ohio laws in regard to inheritance took over and ended up having so many family members share in the inheritance. If that is the case, there probably were some relatives that had bigger shares than others. For example, if one cousin had passed away, but they had two children, the two children would share what would have been their parent's single share of the inheritance and split it. With that many people involved, can only imagine some of the conversations and discussions on what to do with all those cards. That might also be a reason why the whole story about the actual size of the BSF never came out, to allow for privacy and/or protect interests of other family members. Just guessing, but I can see with that many people involved, and the estate having to go through Probate Court, it could make for some really interesting results, that is for sure.

My original point was that no one or two people were getting the entire $3M or so estimate that was apparently given to them initially about what the cards could be worth. But you are correct about the tax implications though. Because the cards were inherited, they did get a tax basis step-up in value when the aunt passed away. So, the heirs likely ended up having to pay little, if any, income tax on the sale of the cards. But you're also right, whatever they got was found money for the heirs that they likely never expected.

[phlflyer1]

Thanks all for the kind words on my E98 set.

Since they were acquired in the mid 1970s by my father and I, its not like I'm out any "real" money from the BSF find. Its more the opportunity cost of potentially selling before the BSF find flooded the market.

As was stated, most of the BSF cards were red and not all players were part of the find so I know my set still holds some decent value. Plus, they are still very enjoyable to look at so I can't complain too much!

[Bryzz02016]

After skimming through the post, and watching the "Strange Inheritance" I have two conclusions:

1.) The "Black Swamp Find" E98's are in no way counterfeit.

2.) Though their values have dropped, in no way are they a bad investment. I cite the massive populations of T206 cards, and high prices the higher grades fetch. In fact over the long haul(maybe a couple decades or so) these will prove to be a very solid/steady investment.

The way Heritage "slow played" these out was probably for the best, but of course was to maximize sales totals. I feel bad for two parties:

1.) Those that paid the exorbitant prices in the first couple Heritage auctions. But those buyers (the 100K+ people) have money to burn. I highly doubt these e98's will ever reach those inflated heights again.

2.) Those that had the lower graded cards that appeared to be the best, only to have those values plummet. But, as mentioned previously in this thread, that's the chance you take in collecting.