Black Swamp Find? Tell me more!

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

Exactly what I was thinking as well, probably closer to 3,000. One thing seems certain though, since prior to the BSF there were no graded E98s higher than a NM 7, I think it can be pretty much agreed upon that any E98s now graded that are higher than that must have come from the BSF after all.

I totally agree with you also that this whole back-end sale with Mathis just makes little sense, and still seems sketchy to me on some level, I just don't know what it is. And your observation/question about why after seeing how well Heritage did with the initial batch of BSF cards, why didn't the rest of the family trust Heritage with the rest of the cards from the Find then? That is a great question, and based on what I've been hearing, the fact that the family didn't go that route makes no sense at all. I know that family politics, especially when you're talking about inheritances and money, can be unbelievably complex and insane. We'll probably never learn all the facts and details behind this family and how they ultimately divvied up and cashed in on their inheritance. What I would love to know though is if any of the cousins that decided to keep their share of the E98 cards may still have those cards in their possession. Would be interesting to talk with that person(s) as to the reasons and thinking behind what they did then, and maybe what they are still thinking of doing with those cards. LOL

Lots of questions and there are answers but I doubt we will ever get them. Just a guess but if HA took the position that lead us all to believe that what they graded was the entire find, I could see how it might not be a great move to then accept the other half of the deal 7 years later. Or that they did not know there was another half and turned down the consignment but then why not go to another house.

Does anyone know what the 750 cards grossed out of Heritage over the years? I know that there were dozens of Cobbs and Wagners from the back half and if I am not mistaken Mathis got a PSA 10 on each with plenty of 9s and 8s.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Lots of questions and there are answers but I doubt we will ever get them. Just a guess but if HA took the position that lead us all to believe that what they graded was the entire find, I could see how it might not be a great move to then accept the other half of the deal 7 years later. Or that they did not know there was another half and turned down the consignment but then why not go to another house.

Does anyone know what the 750 cards grossed out of Heritage over the years? I know that there were dozens of Cobbs and Wagners from the back half and if I am not mistaken Mathis got a PSA 10 on each with plenty of 9s and 8s.

Did you watch that Strange Inheritance episode about the find that someone linked to earlier in the thread? Don't know exactly how many cards it shows as being sold through Heritage, but they talked about an original estimated value of $3M I believe for the cards in the Find, and at one point the show mentioned the family having gotten about $1.8M or so, so far, from what was being sold through Heritage. What I don't know now was how many of the original 750 or so cards were sold to get to that sales amount, or if the $3M estimate was what Heritage was telling the family was for the 750 or so original cards they consigned to them, or if that included the cards on the back-half of the Find as well. Again, some answers, but still a lot of unanswered questions remain.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

Did you watch that Strange Inheritance episode about the find that someone linked to earlier in the thread? Don't know exactly how many cards it shows as being sold through Heritage, but they talked about an original estimated value of $3M I believe for the cards in the Find, and at one point the show mentioned the family having gotten about $1.8M or so, so far, from what was being sold through Heritage. What I don't know now was how many of the original 750 or so cards were sold to get to that sales amount, or if the $3M estimate was what Heritage was telling the family was for the 750 or so original cards they consigned to them, or if that included the cards on the back-half of the Find as well. Again, some answers, but still a lot of unanswered questions remain.

Yeah I did watch it when it was on TV, actually. When I go to Heritage's site there are cards in PSA and SGC holders (new labels and old labels) with the BSF provenance so I am not sure how to get a tally or if one can even be gotten.

Also does not appear they have sold 750 of them even to this day. There are 3 or n a current auction ending tomorrow, in fact, and not sure if these were previously sold and consigned a second time or if they are being offered for the first time.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Yeah I did watch it when it was on TV, actually. When I go to Heritage's site there are cards in PSA and SGC holders (new labels and old labels) with the BSF provenance so I am not sure how to get a tally or if one can even be gotten.

Also does not appear they have sold 750 of them even to this day. There are 3 or n a current auction ending tomorrow, in fact, and not sure if these were previously sold and consigned a second time or if they are being offered for the first time.

LOL

We'll likely never know then. The family did get some serious money from the inheritance though, but spreading it among 20 or so different cousins, no one got really rich from it. Still a great story though, but definitely changed they way people look at and collect E98 cards today.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by BobC

LOL

We'll likely never know then. The family did get some serious money from the inheritance though, but spreading it among 20 or so different cousins, no one got really rich from it. Still a great story though, but definitely changed they way people look at and collect E98 cards today.

110 year old cards should look like they've been handled, bumps, bruises, and a little dirty. The beauty of a century+ card is the journey from 1910 to your collection. Amazing that any of them survived at all.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

110 year old cards should look like they've been handled, bumps, bruises, and a little dirty. The beauty of a century+ card is the journey from 1910 to your collection. Amazing that any of them survived at all.

True that!

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by BobC

LOL

We'll likely never know then. The family did get some serious money from the inheritance though, but spreading it among 20 or so different cousins, no one got really rich from it. Still a great story though, but definitely changed they way people look at and collect E98 cards today.

It is a great story and a great find. Even for non collectors it had to be exhilarating to have found them.

And just to keep in tradition with our discussion...so was it 20 relatives that split up the Heritage proceeds or just half or less than half of that figure? Still, not a ton of money but it is found money with no tax implication, correct? Step up in basis?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

It is a great story and a great find. Even for non collectors it had to be exhilarating to have found them.

And just to keep in tradition with our discussion...so was it 20 relatives that split up the Heritage proceeds or just half or less than half of that figure? Still, not a ton of money but it is found money with no tax implication, correct? Step up in basis?

Well, all the stories I had heard and seen talked about 20 or so cousins that would share in the inheritance. Now if they were all sharing equally, or maybe some had bigger shares coming than others, I don't know for sure. I'm assuming/guessing the aunt died intestate, and so the Ohio laws in regard to inheritance took over and ended up having so many family members share in the inheritance. If that is the case, there probably were some relatives that had bigger shares than others. For example, if one cousin had passed away, but they had two children, the two children would share what would have been their parent's single share of the inheritance and split it. With that many people involved, can only imagine some of the conversations and discussions on what to do with all those cards. That might also be a reason why the whole story about the actual size of the BSF never came out, to allow for privacy and/or protect interests of other family members. Just guessing, but I can see with that many people involved, and the estate having to go through Probate Court, it could make for some really interesting results, that is for sure.

My original point was that no one or two people were getting the entire $3M or so estimate that was apparently given to them initially about what the cards could be worth. But you are correct about the tax implications though. Because the cards were inherited, they did get a tax basis step-up in value when the aunt passed away. So, the heirs likely ended up having to pay little, if any, income tax on the sale of the cards. But you're also right, whatever they got was found money for the heirs that they likely never expected.

[phlflyer1]

Thanks all for the kind words on my E98 set.

Since they were acquired in the mid 1970s by my father and I, its not like I'm out any "real" money from the BSF find. Its more the opportunity cost of potentially selling before the BSF find flooded the market.

As was stated, most of the BSF cards were red and not all players were part of the find so I know my set still holds some decent value. Plus, they are still very enjoyable to look at so I can't complain too much!