Gone with the stain

[G1911]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I insinuated that, yes. Whether or not I actually feel that was most of the time is another matter. So, regardless of how I feel as one collector - let's say it's not ok. What do you propose we do about it? I can hate doctors and trimmers and other alteration hacks all day long in theory.

Of course, you might say things you do not believe, but as it is a text based message board people will reply to the actual statements made, not your unstated thoughts that cannot possibly be read.

Never have I insinuated, obviously, that people have the ability to stop other people from doing bad things. Where there is money there will be fraud. There are many, many far worse things than this in the world that A) I have no meaningful power to stop but B) am cognizant are wrong and am strongly against. One can only recognize a problem if they have the authority to stop it? That would be rather absurd. One can object to a plethora of wrong things while not having the power to stop it. Obviously I cannot snap my fingers and put an end to fraud. That is an absurdist setup. There isn't a crime in the world we could recognize as a crime if this was how it worked.

People, of course, could greatly reduce the fraud by declining to be a party to it and continuing to pay card alterers, fraudsters, and paying many multiples of a cards value for a slab form a firm that cannot tell a CJ Mack from a Dover Mack.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I met Dick and had many back and forths with him here He was very up front about his services, some of which were minor and some of which IMO were more objectionable. The problem was that his customers were in large part using his services to deceive. And he had to know this. I don't know anything about the business after Dick's passing.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I met Dick and had many back and forths with him here He was very up front about his services, some of which were minor and some of which IMO were more objectionable. The problem was that his customers were in large part using his services to deceive. And he had to know this. I don't know anything about the business after Dick's passing.

I was kind of expecting a bit more of a rant about card doctoring from you, Peter. But maybe you're just tired of repeating yourself!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

I was kind of expecting a bit more of a rant about card doctoring from you, Peter. But maybe you're just tired of repeating yourself!

What is left to say, my friend? The broader hobby doesn't care, the government isn't taking action it seems, I'm back to just avoiding bad cards as best I can.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What is left to say, my friend? The broader hobby doesn't care, the government isn't taking action it seems, I'm back to just avoiding bad cards as best I can.

Fair enough. I guess you always seemed so full of piss and vinegar when it comes to card doctoring that you could chew nails and spit rust. But I guess at some point it probably starts to seem like a Sisyphean battle.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Fair enough. I guess you always seemed so full of piss and vinegar when it comes to card doctoring that you could chew nails and spit rust. But I guess at some point it probably starts to seem like a Sisyphean battle.

My enthusiasm was fueled by the expectation or at least hope that something finally was going to be done against some bad players. At some point playing Don Quixote is stupid lol.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by G1911

Of course, you might say things you do not believe, but as it is a text based message board people will reply to the actual statements made, not your unstated thoughts that cannot possibly be read.

Never have I insinuated, obviously, that people have the ability to stop other people from doing bad things. Where there is money there will be fraud. There are many, many far worse things than this in the world that A) I have no meaningful power to stop but B) am cognizant are wrong and am strongly against. One can only recognize a problem if they have the authority to stop it? That would be rather absurd. One can object to a plethora of wrong things while not having the power to stop it. Obviously I cannot snap my fingers and put an end to fraud. That is an absurdist setup. There isn't a crime in the world we could recognize as a crime if this was how it worked.

People, of course, could greatly reduce the fraud by declining to be a party to it and continuing to pay card alterers, fraudsters, and paying many multiples of a cards value for a slab form a firm that cannot tell a CJ Mack from a Dover Mack.

I'm not a party to, nor a proponent of - alteration or fraud upon baseball cards. Please consider any of my earlier insinuations clarified. Excuse me now while I go flip through some of my favorite slabs, whether they be altered and unidentified - or clean.

Greg - My point here was more simply to the fact that if you can't tell, you can't tell. And that will continue to be problematic for many of us, no matter the stance of our piety on alteration and doctoring issues.