Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911
Then stop making claims of fact that are provable false, sir.
Pujols was better. Edmonds and Abreu had some years that are better than some of Rolen's years. That, of course, is not and never has been a standard for the Hall. Almost no player has been the best player on his team every year. How many HOFers have not had other HOF teammates? To say that Edmonds was better than Rolen some years is true, as I said above if you read, it's just irrelevant to the topic and an illogical standard created only for one player and used only for that player because it suits what you want.
It's not about victory, it's about actual fact. People who completely make up claims to fact that do not survive even a cursory check tend to get told that. Sucks.
Yogi Berra didn't lead the league much or at all either, and no one wants to keep him out. You could make a reasonable argument that he was never top of the league, but you don't need to lie and exaggerate in your claims to fact to do this - Rolen's ink is low.
But yet again, you have just made claims to fact that are completely false. "Give me the analytics to discount, ignore or disregard the fact that Rolen never finished in the top 10 of any remarkable category". This is completely and absolutely false, it is not a fact. Rolen did, in fact, finish in the top 10 in significant categories like slugging %, OPS+, on base %, dWAR, range factor, and many more. This information is publicly available and easily accessible to anyone here https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...olensc01.shtml in the Leaderboards section. Again, you are just completely making things up.
You can make a reasoned argument against Rolen, at best he's in the lower part of the Hall of the Fame. You don't need to keep lying to do it. |
It seems you insist on remaining a douchebag, although perhaps asshole is more applicable. I do not lie. If you take umbrage with the numbers, point them out and tell me how to interpret them differently. What you consider meaningful does not make it so, nor does it mean the HOF voters see it that way either.
I corrected my prior post as to Rolen’s top ten finishes, rather than deferring to an article I had quoted. I acknowledged that I have looked at the numbers more closely. I stated that Rolen made some such categories on occasion, but did not perform any better than Graig Nettles, who few here believe belongs in the HOF. As for others, again, I apparently don’t give them the same weight as “meaningful” as you do. That does not make me a liar. But, while looking at these, I see I missed one, Rolen did finish in the top ten in slugging percentage–once. He also once finished seventh in OBP+ if that’s important, but so did Nettles. What else is important or meaningful?
I already pointed out that Rolen finished behind Nettles in both offensive and defensive WAR. As for the “many more” significant categories, Rolen did finish in the top 10 in defensive range at 3b 10 times , if you think that is important– but Nettles did so 11 times. Double plays turned by a 3b? Rolen had 5 top ten finishes, Nettles had 10. Total zone runs at 3b–Rolen with 10, Nettles 9. Putouts at 3b–Rolen 6, Nettles 12. Assists? Rolen with 8, Nettles 12. Fielding % as 3bman? Rolen 9 top tens, Nettles 12. And so on.
So yes, in the more traditional offensive categories and I as I noted in my last post, Rolen did in fact make the top 10 in a few, one time, and a couple of them twice. Wow, hat’s off. As for the defensive numbers, he made it many times, but was outshined by Nettles in nearly all of them, which makes for a decent argument that they are not all that important to the HOF when a guy with such credentials and similar if not better offensive numbers gets kicked to the curb with single digit vote percentages.
01-26-2023, 12:21 PM
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