Where is the second ledger of T cards?

[G1911]

The coupons for the T3 and T9 cabinet cards was popular by the May 14, 1910 issue. They are referenced directly in a very brief notice. "Dealers report a swelling demand" as a result of the picture promotion. Interesting that the pugilists are not mentioned.

[G1911]

By mid year, S. Anaryros is clearly labelled as an ATC firm. By October, Turkey Red is being used to sell less popular brands by bundling in others at a reduced rate if Turkey Red is bought. These are the October 8 and October 15th editions. No further mention has been made of the cabinet cards.

Promotion was discontinued December 10, 1910.

[G1911]

I found a mention in the November 20, 1909 edition, with the new "brilliant cigarette packages" on display at a stand in New York. Not clear this product is generally available yet.

[G1911]

While piecing together what I could find on early Turkey Red, I found some other items of baseball note that might be of interest to other researchers.

1 is this notice in the March 19, 1910 edition on Hal Chase and R.T. Carroll ""stars" of the New York American Baseball club" were doing sales work for "Ismid Cigarette Co.". R.T. Carroll was certainly not a Highlander star; he pitched 5 innings in 1909 and that was his entire MLB career. Interesting to see Chase in such reference with another firm, as T206 was in full swing and he got more cards than anyone in it.

[G1911]

I am not really a deep follower of the T204's, but this is from the July 23, 1910 issue with a July 20, 1910 Boston MA byline. This card issue is generally prescribed as a 1909 release. I don't recall this redemption program.

[G1911]

The November 12, 1910 issue placed Jimmy Sheckard as a competitor to the ATC while appearing in their card sets.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by G1911

I am not really a deep follower of the T204's, but this is from the July 23, 1910 issue with a July 20, 1910 Boston MA byline. This card issue is generally prescribed as a 1909 release. I don't recall this redemption program.

There is little other information on Mentor and Ramly. The only other thing I could find was an employee notice, of a Khedivial (part of the monopoly, but appears to me to have been oft position as independent) worker taking a job with Mentor's "Ramleh" later in 1910. Misspellings of brands is fairly common, for example Lenox is at least once called "Lexon".

[G1911]

And from a February 3, 1909 article we get the leadership of that company at the time. I don't know if this is useful to T204 collectors or if anyone is really digging into the history of this set, but it seems reasonable it would be.

[sb1]

Originally Posted by G1911

I am not really a deep follower of the T204's, but this is from the July 23, 1910 issue with a July 20, 1910 Boston MA byline. This card issue is generally prescribed as a 1909 release. I don't recall this redemption program.

This offer was for the large and very rare team composite premiums, not the cards which were first offered in 1909 with ads in local newspapers and Red Sox scorecards.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by sb1

This offer was for the large and very rare team composite premiums, not the cards which were first offered in 1909 with ads in local newspapers and Red Sox scorecards.

Thank you! I have a TTT and blank back to serve as types in my collection but I don’t know Ramly and Mentor well at all.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by G1911

The coupons for the T3 and T9 cabinet cards was popular by the May 14, 1910 issue. They are referenced directly in a very brief notice. "Dealers report a swelling demand" as a result of the picture promotion. Interesting that the pugilists are not mentioned.

This lines up with the information in the 1st ledger book and also shows why when I posted about the ledger I pointed out that you have to break down all the information on each page.

They first started packing and shipping the coupons for the T cards in the beginning of March 1910 and those coupons state that the Baseball pictures will be ready to ship on April 1st and the athletes will be ready to ship on May 1st 1910.

[IMG][/IMG]

Two pages in the 1st Ledger state that they started packing and shipping the T cards on April 26 1910

This one is 75% Hudson-Fulton and 25% Baseball
[IMG][/IMG]

This 2nd page also states the packing and shipping on April 26 1910 and it also states the packing and shipping of one ball player and one prize fighter on June 16 1910 for the state of Ohio only.
[IMG][/IMG]

I not sure why they only mention the pugilists for the state of Ohio instructions but the coupon says Baseball and Athlete picture which I assume is the T9's.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Pat R

This lines up with the information in the 1st ledger book and also shows why when I posted about the ledger I pointed out that you have to break down all the information on each page.

They first started packing and shipping the coupons for the T cards in the beginning of March 1910 and those coupons state that the Baseball pictures will be ready to ship on April 1st and the athletes will be ready to ship on May 1st 1910.


Two pages in the 1st Ledger state that they started packing and shipping the T cards on April 26 1910

This one is 75% Hudson-Fulton and 25% Baseball

This 2nd page also states the packing and shipping on April 26 1910 and it also states the packing and shipping of one ball player and one prize fighter on June 16 1910 for the state of Ohio only.

I not sure why they only mention the pugilists for the state of Ohio instructions but the coupon says Baseball and Athlete picture which I assume is the T9's.

I think we have further evidence of wave printing and issuing here. 1-76 is a checklisted and planned series (with 76 being a last minute addition after the baseball subjects began printing but before the boxers), but it’s issued as essentially two parts. We have evidence for this in T218 series 3, T220, and then I think less obviously but still present T42 and others, where only 25 of 50 subjects were in production at a time. I suspect that if a retailer got 1,000 packs delivered, they wouldn’t have an entire series for a lot of sets, just half or part of one repeated over and over. This makes sense with the heavy duplication on sheets and it is tough to explain some of the primary evidence any other way, like the T218-3 ledger pages.

When it comes to Turkey Red, I don’t know what one baseball player and one prize fighter really mean. The coupon for the T3/T9 set is the same for both, for the “baseball and athlete picture” department. No boxing card or silk or picture was ever inserted in Turkey Red smokes directly.

I suspect the Ohio reference is to a regionalism that we have found little to document. The ATC has brand divisions but it also has geography divisions. If my memory is correct we’ve talked about articles implying Pennsylvania having different distribution before. There were local laws that may have impeded card releases after the federal prohibition on tobacco cards ended. There may be some of that regionalism reflected in T226 distribution. We are at least advancing from “unknown unknowns” to “known unknowns”