1949 Leaf Theory

[G1911]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Incidentally....Although these cards were acquired in Florida, the original provenance of this collection was the Detroit area in Michigan.
This fact sounds like another Florida acquisition that has been debated on Net54, whose provenance was originally in the northern U.S.

.

We are still eagerly awaiting that evidence from your research that the T206 ‘sheet’ was discovered in New York, not Florida, since you’re bringing it up.

[yanks87]

Speaking of the uncut sheet, if it is real, it confirms the wholesale changes that were made to update the cards. The only one that is a little bit of a head scratcher is the population of the Aberson sleeve variations.

In the image, it shows the 3 "accepted" variations:
Aberson - Short Sleeve PSA/SGC Pop: 95/29 - 124 total
Peterson - Dark Cap PSA/SGC Pop: 144/16 - 160 total
Hermanski* - Full Name PSA/SGC Pop: 231/97 - 328 total

The Variation populations on these:
Aberson - Long Sleeve PSA/SGC Pop: 154/24 - 178 total
Peterson - Red Cap PSA/SGC Pop: 86/24 - 110 total
Hermansk* - Missing I PSA/SGC Pop: 97/4 - 101 total

In theory the total number of Aberson short sleeve cards should be higher than the long sleeve, but from the looks of it, older grades did not delineate between the two versions for both grading houses. I put the * on Hermanski as it really falls into the category of "inking error" to me. If the numbers tell the story, there is a slightly smaller population of the second printing, but if you search the bigger cards, the variations seem to be much more rare than 30%. On a quick visual search of Heritage past sales, 156 Jackie Robinson's sold (not accounting for doubles) only 17 are from the second printing (no hat detail, color bar connecting background to name plate). That to me shows rarity in variation.

The research continues.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by yanks87

Speaking of the uncut sheet, if it is real, it confirms the wholesale changes that were made to update the cards. The only one that is a little bit of a head scratcher is the population of the Aberson sleeve variations.

In the image, it shows the 3 "accepted" variations:
Aberson - Short Sleeve PSA/SGC Pop: 95/29 - 124 total
Peterson - Dark Cap PSA/SGC Pop: 144/16 - 160 total
Hermanski* - Full Name PSA/SGC Pop: 231/97 - 328 total

The Variation populations on these:
Aberson - Long Sleeve PSA/SGC Pop: 154/24 - 178 total
Peterson - Red Cap PSA/SGC Pop: 86/24 - 110 total
Hermansk* - Missing I PSA/SGC Pop: 97/4 - 101 total

In theory the total number of Aberson short sleeve cards should be higher than the long sleeve, but from the looks of it, older grades did not delineate between the two versions for both grading houses. I put the * on Hermanski as it really falls into the category of "inking error" to me. If the numbers tell the story, there is a slightly smaller population of the second printing, but if you search the bigger cards, the variations seem to be much more rare than 30%. On a quick visual search of Heritage past sales, 156 Jackie Robinson's sold (not accounting for doubles) only 17 are from the second printing (no hat detail, color bar connecting background to name plate). That to me shows rarity in variation.

The research continues.

Brian
Excuse me for correcting you.....but the Aberson (Short-Sleeve) version is the variation. The long sleeve-version was printed in the initial press runs.

I recall having several Long-Sleeve versions in my collection when I recovered my 1949 LEAF cards in 1977. No Short-Sleeve Aberson's were in 100's
of 1949 LEAF cards.

Furthermore, no Peterson with the Red Cap in my original 1949 LEAF collection.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[yanks87]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Brian
Excuse me for correcting you.....but the Aberson (Short-Sleeve) version is the variation. The long sleeve-version was printed in the initial press runs.

I recall having several Long-Sleeve versions in my collection when I recovered my 1949 LEAF cards in 1977. No Short-Sleeve Aberson's were in 100's
of 1949 LEAF cards.

Furthermore, no Peterson with the Red Cap in my original 1949 LEAF collection.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

The population would back that up, but the sheet image does not as the short sleeve version is shown with the original run. All part of the puzzle I guess!

[tedzan]

Brian

I'm assuming you are referring to my photo of the 1st Series sheet I posted in Post #6 (earlier in this thread).

If so, that 49-card sheet is a 2nd printing version. It was on display in the 1988 National Show in Atlantic City.
If I recall correctly, the Kent Peterson card on this sheet has a Red Cap.
And the Hermanski card is spelled correctly.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------^ Hermanski ^





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[yanks87]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Brian

I'm assuming you are referring to my photo of the 1st Series sheet I posted in Post #6 (earlier in this thread).

If so, that 49-card sheet is a 2nd printing version. It was on display in the 1988 National Show in Atlantic City.
If I recall correctly, the Kent Peterson card on this sheet has a Red Cap.
And the Hermanski card is spelled correctly.

.

The mystery deepens. If only it was in color, it would answer a lot of questions. Maybe the Aberson was corrected in the 2nd printings, and the hats were all changed in the 3rd printing. to my eye the Peterson looks black, but for certain, all the rest of the cap colors that would change in the final printing, are all still black in that image.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by yanks87

The mystery deepens. If only it was in color, it would answer a lot of questions. Maybe the Aberson was corrected in the 2nd printings, and the hats were all changed in the 3rd printing. to my eye the Peterson looks black, but for certain, all the rest of the cap colors that would change in the final printing, are all still black in that image.

Brian

There ain't no "mystery"......these 1949 LEAF cards were available in our neighborhood in NJ as early as March 1949. Us kids went from collecting the LEAF Boxing cards
right into the LEAF Baseball cards. And I was fortunate, my Mom and Aunt stored my entire Sportscard collection in our attic, while I was in the Air Force for 4 years. So,
when I started collecting again in '77, my huge collection provided me a certain provenance to determine what was issued (and when). Furthermore, over the years I've
compared notes with other old-timers (like me), and we agree.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tjisonline]

Just picked up my first Leaf Jackie Robinson after researching over a year. Looked at many past auctions. I also saw the 2nd plate version (no cap detail / color bright blue) far less than the 1st

Originally Posted by yanks87

Speaking of the uncut sheet, if it is real, it confirms the wholesale changes that were made to update the cards. The only one that is a little bit of a head scratcher is the population of the Aberson sleeve variations.

In the image, it shows the 3 "accepted" variations:
Aberson - Short Sleeve PSA/SGC Pop: 95/29 - 124 total
Peterson - Dark Cap PSA/SGC Pop: 144/16 - 160 total
Hermanski* - Full Name PSA/SGC Pop: 231/97 - 328 total

The Variation populations on these:
Aberson - Long Sleeve PSA/SGC Pop: 154/24 - 178 total
Peterson - Red Cap PSA/SGC Pop: 86/24 - 110 total
Hermansk* - Missing I PSA/SGC Pop: 97/4 - 101 total

In theory the total number of Aberson short sleeve cards should be higher than the long sleeve, but from the looks of it, older grades did not delineate between the two versions for both grading houses. I put the * on Hermanski as it really falls into the category of "inking error" to me. If the numbers tell the story, there is a slightly smaller population of the second printing, but if you search the bigger cards, the variations seem to be much more rare than 30%. On a quick visual search of Heritage past sales, 156 Jackie Robinson's sold (not accounting for doubles) only 17 are from the second printing (no hat detail, color bar connecting background to name plate). That to me shows rarity in variation.

The research continues.

[yanks87]

Congrats! That’s a big card!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by jaisonline

Just picked up my first Leaf Jackie Robinson after researching over a year. Looked at many past auctions. I also saw the 2nd plate version (no cap detail / color bright blue) far less than the 1st

The no cap detail Jackie also has the yellow bars at the sides, and occasionally comes with the "red" actually being Magenta. One of the more subtle ones. The red background ones are bright pink.

I haven't seen any odd trasnsitional versions, either because there weren't any or because the card is a straightforward portrait.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by G1911

We are still eagerly awaiting that evidence from your research that the T206 ‘sheet’ was discovered in New York, not Florida, since you’re bringing it up.

That's the MO when presented with opposing facts to the theories like the Rosen find pack in the REA auction that says Baseball Bubble Gum on it or the Dahlen Brooklyn with the factory sheet number that shows he was printed with the 150/350 subjects not the 350 only subjects just to name a couple.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Pat R

That's the MO when presented with opposing facts to the theories like the Rosen find pack in the REA auction that says Baseball Bubble Gum on it or the Dahlen Brooklyn with the factory sheet number that shows he was printed with the 150/350 subjects not the 350 only subjects just to name a couple.

One would think that, when caught not having what one claims to have (in this case evidence from alleged ‘research’ disproving the Sevchuk claim and Florida origin of the find), that one would drop the issue instead of bringing it up, for no reason or gain, again in unrelated threads. It’s a shame some folks just make up non-existent “research” to support an idea they like without any regard to the truth.

[steve_a]

Here's two images for reference

The first is a complete uncut sheet. (I've seen this around but not sure who the first to post was, I think I first saw it on toppsaholic blog). It depicts a complete sheet as four identical 7x7 panels. Given the short run of Leaf cards I assume that all sets were done the same way. Among my errors I have a few that would question this but certainly that seems the way it was done for production.

The second image is my depiction of an uncut panel of Rare Leafs. These cards were placed by very fun research and collecting of error and miscut cards (which may be most leafs tbh)

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by steve_a

Here's two images for reference

The first is a complete uncut sheet. (I've seen this around but not sure who the first to post was, I think I first saw it on toppsaholic blog). It depicts a complete sheet as four identical 7x7 panels. Given the short run of Leaf cards I assume that all sets were done the same way. Among my errors I have a few that would question this but certainly that seems the way it was done for production.

The second image is my depiction of an uncut panel of Rare Leafs. These cards were placed by very fun research and collecting of error and miscut cards (which may be most leafs tbh)

That's pretty neat and I bet a lot of fun to reconstruct Steve.