1949 Leaf Theory

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by yanks87

Speaking of the uncut sheet, if it is real, it confirms the wholesale changes that were made to update the cards. The only one that is a little bit of a head scratcher is the population of the Aberson sleeve variations.

In the image, it shows the 3 "accepted" variations:
Aberson - Short Sleeve PSA/SGC Pop: 95/29 - 124 total
Peterson - Dark Cap PSA/SGC Pop: 144/16 - 160 total
Hermanski* - Full Name PSA/SGC Pop: 231/97 - 328 total

The Variation populations on these:
Aberson - Long Sleeve PSA/SGC Pop: 154/24 - 178 total
Peterson - Red Cap PSA/SGC Pop: 86/24 - 110 total
Hermansk* - Missing I PSA/SGC Pop: 97/4 - 101 total

In theory the total number of Aberson short sleeve cards should be higher than the long sleeve, but from the looks of it, older grades did not delineate between the two versions for both grading houses. I put the * on Hermanski as it really falls into the category of "inking error" to me. If the numbers tell the story, there is a slightly smaller population of the second printing, but if you search the bigger cards, the variations seem to be much more rare than 30%. On a quick visual search of Heritage past sales, 156 Jackie Robinson's sold (not accounting for doubles) only 17 are from the second printing (no hat detail, color bar connecting background to name plate). That to me shows rarity in variation.

The research continues.

Brian
Excuse me for correcting you.....but the Aberson (Short-Sleeve) version is the variation. The long sleeve-version was printed in the initial press runs.

I recall having several Long-Sleeve versions in my collection when I recovered my 1949 LEAF cards in 1977. No Short-Sleeve Aberson's were in 100's
of 1949 LEAF cards.

Furthermore, no Peterson with the Red Cap in my original 1949 LEAF collection.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[yanks87]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Brian
Excuse me for correcting you.....but the Aberson (Short-Sleeve) version is the variation. The long sleeve-version was printed in the initial press runs.

I recall having several Long-Sleeve versions in my collection when I recovered my 1949 LEAF cards in 1977. No Short-Sleeve Aberson's were in 100's
of 1949 LEAF cards.

Furthermore, no Peterson with the Red Cap in my original 1949 LEAF collection.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

The population would back that up, but the sheet image does not as the short sleeve version is shown with the original run. All part of the puzzle I guess!

[tedzan]

Brian

I'm assuming you are referring to my photo of the 1st Series sheet I posted in Post #6 (earlier in this thread).

If so, that 49-card sheet is a 2nd printing version. It was on display in the 1988 National Show in Atlantic City.
If I recall correctly, the Kent Peterson card on this sheet has a Red Cap.
And the Hermanski card is spelled correctly.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------^ Hermanski ^





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[yanks87]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Brian

I'm assuming you are referring to my photo of the 1st Series sheet I posted in Post #6 (earlier in this thread).

If so, that 49-card sheet is a 2nd printing version. It was on display in the 1988 National Show in Atlantic City.
If I recall correctly, the Kent Peterson card on this sheet has a Red Cap.
And the Hermanski card is spelled correctly.

.

The mystery deepens. If only it was in color, it would answer a lot of questions. Maybe the Aberson was corrected in the 2nd printings, and the hats were all changed in the 3rd printing. to my eye the Peterson looks black, but for certain, all the rest of the cap colors that would change in the final printing, are all still black in that image.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by yanks87

The mystery deepens. If only it was in color, it would answer a lot of questions. Maybe the Aberson was corrected in the 2nd printings, and the hats were all changed in the 3rd printing. to my eye the Peterson looks black, but for certain, all the rest of the cap colors that would change in the final printing, are all still black in that image.

Brian

There ain't no "mystery"......these 1949 LEAF cards were available in our neighborhood in NJ as early as March 1949. Us kids went from collecting the LEAF Boxing cards
right into the LEAF Baseball cards. And I was fortunate, my Mom and Aunt stored my entire Sportscard collection in our attic, while I was in the Air Force for 4 years. So,
when I started collecting again in '77, my huge collection provided me a certain provenance to determine what was issued (and when). Furthermore, over the years I've
compared notes with other old-timers (like me), and we agree.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[slidekellyslide]

I found a scrapbook at a tag sale earlier this year with some 49 Leaf premiums inside of it. Soaked them out easy peasy. 5 minute bath and they floated right off the page.

[yanks87]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I found a scrapbook at a tag sale earlier this year with some 49 Leaf premiums inside of it. Soaked them out easy peasy. 5 minute bath and they floated right off the page.

What a find!! They are fantastic! Through looking at other Leaf products, these resemble the Spearmint gum ads that ran at that time as well. Thanks for sharing.

[yanks87]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Brian

There ain't no "mystery"......these 1949 LEAF cards were available in our neighborhood in NJ as early as March 1949. Us kids went from collecting the LEAF Boxing cards
right into the LEAF Baseball cards. And I was fortunate, my Mom and Aunt stored my entire Sportscard collection in our attic, while I was in the Air Force for 4 years. So,
when I started collecting again in '77, my huge collection provided me a certain provenance to determine what was issued (and when). Furthermore, over the years I've
compared notes with other old-timers (like me), and we agree.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Ted, not questioning your experience, provenance or otherwise, I think it is vital to composing the "full story", I am just trying to crack the code of why and when the changes were made to the cards. The pictures, population reports and anecdotes are all we have to go off of, so there is still some mystery to the 1949 Leaf set.

I'm heading to Chicago this spring to check out items from the Leaf estate, hopefully this will help to round out the story starting where they were produced in Chicago. I hope that I will be able to connect what I find there with your reporting and somewhere in between we can get a clearer picture of how they rolled off the presses and if it was the lackluster sales or a new art director that lead to the changes that were made.

No mystery in your stories, those are solid, but there are still some things left to figure out about this set/brand.

Thanks again for all the replies!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by yanks87

Ted, not questioning your experience, provenance or otherwise, I think it is vital to composing the "full story", I am just trying to crack the code of why and when the changes were made to the cards. The pictures, population reports and anecdotes are all we have to go off of, so there is still some mystery to the 1949 Leaf set.

I'm heading to Chicago this spring to check out items from the Leaf estate, hopefully this will help to round out the story starting where they were produced in Chicago. I hope that I will be able to connect what I find there with your reporting and somewhere in between we can get a clearer picture of how they rolled off the presses and if it was the lackluster sales or a new art director that lead to the changes that were made.

No mystery in your stories, those are solid, but there are still some things left to figure out about this set/brand.

Thanks again for all the replies!

To me the why is the puzzle.
Boxing and Football don't have as many differences in the printing, and If I'm not messing up the timeline came out before Baseball.

My general feeling was that it wasn't poor sales, but much better than expected sales.
The shop I worked for saved the masks used to make the plates for a long time. Some for years. At least until the Hunts drove silver up... Anyway, we could have easily reprinted many jobs exactly the same as earlier.

But if Leaf printed to their expected sales, and threw out the masks, those would have to be redone.
The other possibility would be responding to complaints, like "who wants a PINK baseball card!"
Or having another place do more cards when needed.
Or... if the ones with the lines came first, eliminating the lines would make the job cheaper as it uses less ink. That little difference may not seem like a lot, but over a lot of sheets it adds up.