Some of the mysteries and myths surrounding the most famous card in the hobby.

[Rhotchkiss]

Maybe cut up, but Not destroyed. As I said, this is in the upcoming Mile High Auction (which looks like an amazing auction BTW).

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Maybe cut up, but Not destroyed. As I said, this is in the upcoming Mile High Auction (which looks like an amazing auction BTW).

That right edge is bothersome, dollars to donuts, I think I'd rather have yours.

I don't know how that grades a 9 without addressing the sheet cut.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

That right edge is bothersome, dollars to donuts, I think I'd rather have yours.

I thought someone years ago listed a lot of these that had been graded by SGC but noted they were trimmed or sheet cut. REA maybe?

[G1911]

In the context of uncut material, it was destroyed; cut up into individual components of cards. The uncut sheet does not exist. As far as I can tell no photograph of it before it ceased to exist was taken to preserve the layout.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

In the context of uncut material, it was destroyed; cut up into individual components of cards. The uncut sheet does not exist. As far as I can tell no photograph of it before it ceased to exist was taken to preserve the layout.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...et-initiative/

[Peter_Spaeth]

They were AUTHS here.

https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...n-hall-famers/

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...hnson-sgc-mint

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...et-initiative/

I remember this from a years ago. Did it ever amount to anything? I never heard of any final reconstruction. It's difficult to piece together based off scans, and these were cut pretty well so I imagine this would have been incredibly difficult without most of them in hand and out of the holders. I had a hard time piecing together the less well cut T220-1 sheet before I had almost all of them in hand to layout on my table.


Ramly, T.T.T. and 456 may or may not be ATC. I haven't seen any real proof either way, but because the sheet no longer is extant I never dug too hard either. If they weren't ATC, it may have been done in the same general ATC & affiliates card promotion anyways, like I suspect E229 was. If it was done by them, the sheet layout seems odd, because, while we don't the layout, it appears to have only had 1 card of a subject on a sheet.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by G1911

In the context of uncut material, it was destroyed; cut up into individual components of cards. The uncut sheet does not exist. As far as I can tell no photograph of it before it ceased to exist was taken to preserve the layout.

Fair enough. I guess destruction by cut-up is still destruction (no longer whole).

Meanwhile, I saw the Wajo in person at the Philly show -- it is very pretty.

Regarding sheet-cut cards, do you think what SGC did -- grade it but note its sheet cut -- makes sense? Its not authentic ("A") to the extent it was never included with the tobacco it advertised. Also, it really has not been altered, except with respect to its place on the larger sheet, and all cards were at some point cut from sheets.

You have T206 brown old mills, which all come with an A designation, which were never put into packs, and were all sheet cut (often with wavy borders). You have most T215 pirates cut from a sheet and they all get A designations. Meanwhile there are plenty of hand cut strip and other cards that get numerical grades but are designated "hand cut" (sometimes incorrectly). Seems that SGC grading it and designating it sheet cut makes sense.

I know this is a side track of the main topic, and perhaps its been discussed before, but I really don't know the nuances of grading and this is interesting, like the T206 Wagner

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Fair enough. I guess destruction by cut-up is still destruction (no longer whole).

Meanwhile, I saw the Wajo in person at the Philly show -- it is very pretty.

Regarding sheet-cut cards, do you think what SGC did -- grade it but note its sheet cut -- makes sense? Its not authentic ("A") to the extent it was never included with the tobacco it advertised. Also, it really has not been altered, except with respect to its place on the larger sheet, and all cards were at some point cut from sheets.

You have T206 brown old mills, which all come with an A designation, which were never put into packs, and were all sheet cut (often with wavy borders). You have most T215 pirates cut from a sheet and they all get A designations. Meanwhile there are plenty of hand cut strip and other cards that get numerical grades but are designated "hand cut" (sometimes incorrectly). Seems that SGC grading it and designating it sheet cut makes sense.

I know this is a side track of the main topic, and perhaps its been discussed before, but I really don't know the nuances of grading and this is interesting, like the T206 Wagner

Personally, I would think they just be "AUTH"; and probably sell for more than a 1 or a 2 or a 3 because they are very nice looking copies. A sheet has great value in the sense that it can inform us on the research side of the hobby, but it is otherwise not special. A card cut down after-the-face is a card cut down after-the-fact, it's still a trim job. That doesn't ruin the card or anything, but it makes it a technical A grade.

I believe these were in A slabs originally. Not sure what happened to get them re-holdered into the more advantageous '1-10 with a note' format. EDIT: I see Peter linked to the original A slabs before this post now.

I know most people who come into this kind of material will cut them up, but it would be great if they could at least preserve for us all what it looked like before being cut for dollars.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Personally, I would think they just be "AUTH"; and probably sell for more than a 1 or a 2 or a 3 because they are very nice looking copies. A sheet has great value in the sense that it can inform us on the research side of the hobby, but it is otherwise not special. A card cut down after-the-face is a card cut down after-the-fact, it's still a trim job. That doesn't ruin the card or anything, but it makes it a technical A grade.

I believe these were in A slabs originally. Not sure what happened to get them re-holdered into the more advantageous '1-10 with a note' format. EDIT: I see Peter linked to the original A slabs before this post now.

I know most people who come into this kind of material will cut them up, but it would be great if they could at least preserve for us all what it looked like before being cut for dollars.

Connections make these things happen. I agree they should be A, as they or most of them were in the link I posted, but as long as sheet cut is indicated it's reasonable I suppose.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by G1911

A sheet has great value in the sense that it can inform us on the research side of the hobby, but it is otherwise not special.

I could not disagree more with your first statement. A sheet in many of the T and E issues would be unique (the only one that exists) if ever located. Maybe the sheets aren't appreciated as they should be, but they are indeed "special".

Did you see these boxing sheets from the T220 Silver Series that recently came to market on Ebay? Unique.