Ebay Authentication - It Gets Personal

[Yoda]

Gentleman. the collective wisdom of the board has assisted in getting this mess sorted out. This morning I received an Email from Greg saying, referencing the Board's exchange on the matter(there you go), I have been refunded the full purchase price for my Spahn.
In my mind, 2 issues remain:
1. The work flows involved when a raw card is rejected for authenticity. I still don't know who deemed it unworthy of a nrmt grade. If Ebay really believes in this thing they must clarify exactly how it works.
2. I have normally had no problem with GM grading until this frustrating matter. If more of there cards are being rejected because of Greg's grading, then they have a real problem.
Thanks to all the board members who chimed in on this; it certainly spurred Greg into action. John

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Gentleman. the collective wisdom of the board has assisted in getting this mess sorted out. This morning I received an Email from Greg saying, referencing the Board's exchange on the matter(there you go), I have been refunded the full purchase price for my Spahn.
In my mind, 2 issues remain:
1. The work flows involved when a raw card is rejected for authenticity. I still don't know who deemed it unworthy of a nrmt grade. If Ebay really believes in this thing they must clarify exactly how it works.
2. I have normally had no problem with GM grading until this frustrating matter. If more of there cards are being rejected because of Greg's grading, then they have a real problem.
Thanks to all the board members who chimed in on this; it certainly spurred Greg into action. John

The answer to #1 is CSG. They are the authenticator for the raw card program.

[111gecko]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Gentleman. the collective wisdom of the board has assisted in getting this mess sorted out. This morning I received an Email from Greg saying, referencing the Board's exchange on the matter(there you go), I have been refunded the full purchase price for my Spahn.
In my mind, 2 issues remain:
1. The work flows involved when a raw card is rejected for authenticity. I still don't know who deemed it unworthy of a nrmt grade. If Ebay really believes in this thing they must clarify exactly how it works.
2. I have normally had no problem with GM grading until this frustrating matter. If more of there cards are being rejected because of Greg's grading, then they have a real problem.
Thanks to all the board members who chimed in on this; it certainly spurred Greg into action. John

Out of curiosity; when did you get your refund? I thought it was supposed to be immediately once the card is kicked. Did you just get it today?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Gentleman. the collective wisdom of the board has assisted in getting this mess sorted out. This morning I received an Email from Greg saying, referencing the Board's exchange on the matter(there you go), I have been refunded the full purchase price for my Spahn.
In my mind, 2 issues remain:
1. The work flows involved when a raw card is rejected for authenticity. I still don't know who deemed it unworthy of a nrmt grade. If Ebay really believes in this thing they must clarify exactly how it works.
2. I have normally had no problem with GM grading until this frustrating matter. If more of there cards are being rejected because of Greg's grading, then they have a real problem.
Thanks to all the board members who chimed in on this; it certainly spurred Greg into action. John

A brace of general observations, based on my experience with the eBay authenticity program:

1) If an item is rejected, the refund process is automatic. The seller doesn't have to do anything, and you don't have to do anything as the buyer. It's always nice when the seller contacts you to chat about it, but in terms of getting your cash back, the seller has no control over that process. So there was really never any risk that you would be SOL. Either you get the goods or you get a refund, period, full stop. It might take a couple of days until it all gets sorted, but hopefully the seemingly interminable waiting doesn't constitute a terrible inconvenience.

2) In one case, I had the authenticator contact me to alert me to their findings, and ask me how I want to proceed. In that situation involving a slabbed item, the slab had come apart. The authenticator sent me pictures so that I could take a look and decide for myself. I had the option to proceed and accept the item, or I could choose to reject it for a full refund. That may have been a unique situation, but I'm more than a little intrigued that the authenticator didn't give you the option of proceeding in spite of their findings.

[Yoda]

Just when I thought things were sorting themselves out after GM's email saying that a refund was issued 10/25, I checked my P/P account, from which I originally paid for the card, and there was no credit shown.

I just send a WTF to Greg asking where the supposed refund was sent. I fear this incident may have spoiled me from buying from GM in the future if any purchase may be rejected by some dickhead at CSG. And I don't know if they rejected it because of authenticity or CSG didn't agree with GM about the grade. Card buying is supposed to be fun, right?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Just when I thought things were sorting themselves out after GM's email saying that a refund was issued 10/25, I checked my P/P account, from which I originally paid for the card, and there was no credit shown.

I just send a WTF to Greg asking where the supposed refund was sent. I fear this incident may have spoiled me from buying from GM in the future if any purchase may be rejected by some dickhead at CSG. And I don't know if they rejected it because of authenticity or CSG didn't agree with GM about the grade. Card buying is supposed to be fun, right?

Why is the person at CSG a dickhead? Maybe they were correct in their assessment.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why is the person at CSG a dickhead? Maybe they were correct in their assessment.

Because they are interfering in a transaction between two parties who want to do the deal, I think. Their assessment is correct, but no one involved in the deal cares what they think, but their deal is nixed because an unwanted third party arbitrarily says they can't do the deal. I wouldn't phrase it that way, but I see the sentiment.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by G1911

Because they are interfering in a transaction between two parties who want to do the deal, I think. Their assessment is correct, but no one involved in the deal cares what they think, but their deal is nixed because an unwanted third party arbitrarily says they can't do the deal. I wouldn't phrase it that way, but I see the sentiment.

I suppose we could always modify the adjective just a little here.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by G1911

Because they are interfering in a transaction between two parties who want to do the deal, I think. Their assessment is correct, but no one involved in the deal cares what they think, but their deal is nixed because an unwanted third party arbitrarily says they can't do the deal. I wouldn't phrase it that way, but I see the sentiment.

Greg, spot on. My sentiments exactly. All I want is my card or my refund and I have neither. CSG's involvement is a fly in the ointment and totally unnecessary in what should be a simple transaction between the buyer and the seller. Let's face it, CSG is the weak sister among TPG'ers and I have never have or contemplated using them for grading.

[111gecko]

Maybe EBay should allow an 'opt out' of the EA when you check out.

Basically buying the card as-is. I'd certainly do that as I am fine with what I buy raw.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Greg, spot on. My sentiments exactly. All I want is my card or my refund and I have neither. CSG's involvement is a fly in the ointment and totally unnecessary in what should be a simple transaction between the buyer and the seller. Let's face it, CSG is the weak sister among TPG'ers and I have never have or contemplated using them for grading.

Have you contacted eBay support? No refund still is troubling. Greg (Morris) doesn’t have the ability to refund it, as I understand, because eBay is supposed to do it automatically at rejection. If they haven’t refunded yet AND have mixed your deal, that’s really bad.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Greg, spot on. My sentiments exactly. All I want is my card or my refund and I have neither. CSG's involvement is a fly in the ointment and totally unnecessary in what should be a simple transaction between the buyer and the seller. Let's face it, CSG is the weak sister among TPG'ers and I have never have or contemplated using them for grading.

Yeah, that would put the brakes on buying for me. I'd take about 6 months to a year off buying anything....Or maybe NEVER. E-bay should have refunded you immediately, but they don't know the meaning of the word. You'll get your money back after a little more aggravation.

AND the only reason to buy from Greg Morris in the past has been their fairly consistent grading. They don't miss many, but the other sellers are batting .056 with 500 strikeouts.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Because they are interfering in a transaction between two parties who want to do the deal, I think. Their assessment is correct, but no one involved in the deal cares what they think, but their deal is nixed because an unwanted third party arbitrarily says they can't do the deal. I wouldn't phrase it that way, but I see the sentiment.

That is on ebay, not CSG.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That is on ebay, not CSG.

That does not seem to be true. CSG is still a meddling party, and it is their arbitrary choice. They can reach out to the buyer, as others have described having happened, or they can just kill a deal nobody wants to have killed. They are meddling because eBay paid them too and that’s their role, but the call to kill a deal or reach out to the buyer is their choice. They are responsible for it.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Card buying is supposed to be fun, right?

Absolutely!

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

Absolutely!

I'd wear this to my card show.

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by Yoda

1. The work flows involved when a raw card is rejected for authenticity. I still don't know who deemed it unworthy of a nrmt grade. If Ebay really believes in this thing they must clarify exactly how it works.

Yoda — CSG is the one who authenticates the raw cards. PSA inspects that graded cards.

Here is a link that explains the process:

https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-...-tradingcards/

[sonnyu2]

The auction ended on October 16th, correct? If so, the card should have been in CSG's hands within a few days after payment and they would have made their "assessment" a couple weeks ago. Seems off that it's only going through the authentication process now.

And as others have said, if a card is rejected by the authentication program, refunds are automatic and implemented immediately at the time of rejection.

Does the tracking actually show that Greg Morris sent it? You would have gotten emails directly from eBay about the authentication process.

And as a seller, I am 100% in favor of the program for many reasons. As a buyer, I believe that you should have the option to opt out of the program, but if you do so, you lose any buyer protection - meaning no refunds for any reason and no support from eBay on the purchase.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by sonnyu2

As a buyer, I believe that you should have the option to opt out of the program, but if you do so, you lose any buyer protection - meaning no refunds for any reason and no support from eBay on the purchase.

That sounds reasonable, but I don't think there are good reasons for opting out, mostly it's just a lot of ranting, like Yoda is doing now.

And I suspect if the people that opted out did end up getting a bad card they would still squawk about it to everyone they could think of and blame ebay.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

That sounds reasonable, but I don't think there are good reasons for opting out, mostly it's just a lot of ranting, like Yoda is doing now.

And I suspect if the people that opted out did end up getting a bad card they would still squawk about it to everyone they could think of and blame ebay.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

I just don't get how Yoda is so mixed up about the details of something that happened to him.

I personally think it is a great program.

[Yoda]

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

I wouldn't worry too much. Unfortunately Greg highly over graded a card to cause this problem. That is very rare for them so as long as the card matches the description you should be fine. Best of luck having many smooth transactions in the future.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

What's to fear? Worst case you get a full refund. And at that point if you still want the card you can probably arrange to buy it directly. This whole thread has me SMH honestly.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

Just ask Greg to relist it for $500 BIN using the word “authentic” in its description with no remark on the condition. It will then be re-evaluated for authenticity only by CSG and sent to you if its good. Problem solved, both parties happy.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

I honestly don't understand why you're angry. The service stopped you from receiving an inaccurately described item and gave you an instant refund.

Sure, YOU might be OK with getting a card that was overgraded and described incorrectly but the vast majority of people would not. AND you knew this was the process before your purchase.

This whole thing worked exactly as it's supposed to with exactly the right outcome.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

Not sure why you're so unhappy that you ended up not paying more than you probably would have had the card been correctly graded initially. Also, there are currently several other 49 Bowman Spahns available on eBay (both raw and graded) that look like they are in comparable condition to the one you "won" and cost less than you bid so if you can't working something out with GM, there are other options available.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Yeah, that would put the brakes on buying for me. I'd take about 6 months to a year off buying anything....Or maybe NEVER. E-bay should have refunded you immediately, but they don't know the meaning of the word. You'll get your money back after a little more aggravation.

AND the only reason to buy from Greg Morris in the past has been their fairly consistent grading. They don't miss many, but the other sellers are batting .056 with 500 strikeouts.

John did get the refund he said that he was looking in the wrong account.

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Gentleman. the collective wisdom of the board has assisted in getting this mess sorted out. This morning I received an Email from Greg saying, referencing the Board's exchange on the matter(there you go), I have been refunded the full purchase price for my Spahn.
In my mind, 2 issues remain:
1. The work flows involved when a raw card is rejected for authenticity. I still don't know who deemed it unworthy of a nrmt grade. If Ebay really believes in this thing they must clarify exactly how it works.
2. I have normally had no problem with GM grading until this frustrating matter. If more of there cards are being rejected because of Greg's grading, then they have a real problem.
Thanks to all the board members who chimed in on this; it certainly spurred Greg into action. John

Something isn't right here. If the card was really rejected, EBay would have refunded your money. Greg saying he refunded is not how this works.

If EBay didn't refund you and you never received an email from Ebay saying the card failed, I'd question whether it really was sent to Authentication at all.

[obcmac]

I also recently had a not-so-great experience with the program. It was as a seller though. I sold a card...just listed what the card was and said see scans for condition. Somehow ebay (CSG) decided I didn't accurately represent the card and they were sending it back to me??? The money never made it to me, so I didn't handle the refund.

Mac

[prestigecollectibles]

I just won this raw card from Greg Morris.

Title was "1911 T205 Gold Border Set-Break Johnny Evers Sweet Caporal LOW GRADE (crease)"

I shouldn't have any problems with this going through CSG.

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by obcmac

I also recently had a not-so-great experience with the program. It was as a seller though. I sold a card...just listed what the card was and said see scans for condition. Somehow ebay (CSG) decided I didn't accurately represent the card and they were sending it back to me??? The money never made it to me, so I didn't handle the refund.

Mac

hmm.. A Grading company seeing all these raw cards - rejecting a percentage of them could(er ... better not , I’m still new here )

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Something isn't right here. If the card was really rejected, EBay would have refunded your money. Greg saying he refunded is not how this works.

If EBay didn't refund you and you never received an email from Ebay saying the card failed, I'd question whether it really was sent to Authentication at all.

I am not confident we have all the facts. John was already wrong about PSA rejecting it.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am not confident we have all the facts. John was already wrong about PSA rejecting it.

The OP said Greg sent him an email saying PSA rejected it. If Greg said that, that casts even more doubt on him.

Im not accusing Greg of anything, Ive always received good service from him but there is definately something not right here.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

The OP said Greg sent him an email saying PSA rejected it. If Greg said that, that casts even more doubt on him.

Im not accusing Greg of anything, Ive always received good service from him but there is definately something not right here.

Agree it makes no sense, because that email I presume would have come from ebay saying your item failed authentication. Something not adding up, that is for sure.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Jim65

The OP said Greg sent him an email saying PSA rejected it. If Greg said that, that casts even more doubt on him.



Im not accusing Greg of anything, Ive always received good service from him but there is definately something not right here.

Yoda still doesn't understand who is doing what with respect to his transaction. He did however back off from saying that GMC's letter mentioned PSA.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[Snowman]

Well, this should be fun. Looks like it's my turn...

I bought a raw Mantle on eBay and it got sent to CSG to authenticate it. I didn't notice it at the time, but the card in the listing showed the wrong back (the card I bought was a 1960 Topps, but the back image is actually of a 1966 Topps Mantle). It didn't register to me when I bid on the card because I only examine the images for creases, markings, and other flaws. Anyhow, the card gets sent off to CSG and they authenticated it. However, the card I received has a pen marking on the back that someone tried to erase.

The listing states "no returns" and eBay will not allow me to file a claim because the card was authenticated by CSG.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Well, this should be fun. Looks like it's my turn...

I bought a raw Mantle on eBay and it got sent to CSG to authenticate it. I didn't notice it at the time, but the card in the listing showed the wrong back (the card I bought was a 1960 Topps, but the back image is actually of a 1966 Topps Mantle). It didn't register to me when I bid on the card because I only examine the images for creases, markings, and other flaws. Anyhow, the card gets sent off to CSG and they authenticated it. However, the card I received has a pen marking on the back that someone tried to erase.

The listing states "no returns" and eBay will not allow me to file a claim because the card was authenticated by CSG.

You should contact EBay. The card should not have been authenticated.

1. The card you received is different than the one pictured in the auction, its a mistake but still a legitimate reason to return.
2.If the seller didn't mention the erasure, you have 2 grounds for refund.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Well, this should be fun. Looks like it's my turn...

I bought a raw Mantle on eBay and it got sent to CSG to authenticate it. I didn't notice it at the time, but the card in the listing showed the wrong back (the card I bought was a 1960 Topps, but the back image is actually of a 1966 Topps Mantle). It didn't register to me when I bid on the card because I only examine the images for creases, markings, and other flaws. Anyhow, the card gets sent off to CSG and they authenticated it. However, the card I received has a pen marking on the back that someone tried to erase.

The listing states "no returns" and eBay will not allow me to file a claim because the card was authenticated by CSG.

LOL, that is hilarious. I am sure I have done similar. I just wouldn't tell everyone or try to return something that was 100% my own fault.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by bnorth

LOL, that is hilarious. I am sure I have done similar. I just wouldn't tell everyone or try to return something that was 100% my own fault.

Yes, it was partly his fault for not noticing but the seller is wrong too for not disclosing a fault and CSG is wrong for authenticating a card that clearly did not match the auction photos. CSG takes most of the blame here.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Yes, it was partly his fault for not noticing but the seller is wrong too for not disclosing a fault and CSG is wrong for authenticating a card that clearly did not match the auction photos. CSG takes most of the blame here.

The seller also is selling a 66 Mantle and screwed up uploading the picture. Weirdly they relisted it a several times before it sold and no one must have sent the seller a message letting them know of the mistake.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by bnorth

LOL, that is hilarious. I am sure I have done similar. I just wouldn't tell everyone or try to return something that was 100% my own fault.

100% my fault? lol. OK, if you say so.

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Well, this should be fun. Looks like it's my turn...

I bought a raw Mantle on eBay and it got sent to CSG to authenticate it. I didn't notice it at the time, but the card in the listing showed the wrong back (the card I bought was a 1960 Topps, but the back image is actually of a 1966 Topps Mantle). It didn't register to me when I bid on the card because I only examine the images for creases, markings, and other flaws. Anyhow, the card gets sent off to CSG and they authenticated it. However, the card I received has a pen marking on the back that someone tried to erase.

The listing states "no returns" and eBay will not allow me to file a claim because the card was authenticated by CSG.

So you bid on the rare 1 of 1 "Future Backs" parallels and the seller sent you a common backed one?

That's not right.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by timzcardz

So you bid on the rare 1 of 1 "Future Backs" parallels and the seller sent you a common backed one?

That's not right.

And my natural follow-up, because the divergence here is somewhat glaring:

You can spot 51/49 centering from across the room but can’t identify that the back photo is from the wrong year?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

And my natural follow-up, because the divergence here is somewhat glaring:

You can spot 51/49 centering from across the room but can’t identify that the back photo is from the wrong year?

1% centering is a lot more noticeable than the entire design.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by raulus

And my natural follow-up, because the divergence here is somewhat glaring:

You can spot 51/49 centering from across the room but can’t identify that the back photo is from the wrong year?

Correct. I primarily focus on the front centering. I couldn't care less about the back unless it has been altered. I looked for alterations. I didn't see any, so I bid accordingly. The CSG authenticator clearly didn't notice either. However, they also failed to spot the alteration, which is much worse IMO.

Here is the listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285021128754

And here is a scan of the back of the card I received. Alteration circled in the top left corner. The scan blows out the color differentiation somewhat though. It's more obvious in hand. Someone tried to erase a pen marking in that corner.

I filed a claim. eBay denied the claim. I filed an appeal. We'll see how it goes...

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I filed a claim. eBay denied the claim. I filed an appeal. We'll see how it goes...

Most claims are never seen by humans, its all automation. Your appeal might be seen by a person but I would call them or contact them through Facebook. Making a case to an actual person helps.

I contacted EBay through Facebook recently and they responded within an hour and fixed the problem within 5 minutes.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Well, this should be fun. Looks like it's my turn...

I bought a raw Mantle on eBay and it got sent to CSG to authenticate it. I didn't notice it at the time, but the card in the listing showed the wrong back (the card I bought was a 1960 Topps, but the back image is actually of a 1966 Topps Mantle). It didn't register to me when I bid on the card because I only examine the images for creases, markings, and other flaws. Anyhow, the card gets sent off to CSG and they authenticated it. However, the card I received has a pen marking on the back that someone tried to erase.

The listing states "no returns" and eBay will not allow me to file a claim because the card was authenticated by CSG.

Originally Posted by Snowman

Correct. I primarily focus on the front centering. I couldn't care less about the back unless it has been altered. I looked for alterations. I didn't see any, so I bid accordingly. The CSG authenticator clearly didn't notice either. However, they also failed to spot the alteration, which is much worse IMO.

Here is the listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285021128754

And here is a scan of the back of the card I received. Alteration circled in the top left corner. The scan blows out the color differentiation somewhat though. It's more obvious in hand. Someone tried to erase a pen marking in that corner.

I filed a claim. eBay denied the claim. I filed an appeal. We'll see how it goes...

Well, it took a while, but I have an update. I appealed eBay's claim denial and sent in pictures of the card I received. eBay said they would get back to me within 2 days... 2 weeks later and still no update. So, I was able to contact someone in customer support and they looked into it. They had me send the card back to CSG for re-authentication. I just got word today that they have reversed their decision on my case and have accepted my appeal. They are refunding me the $500.