Hall of Fame Ballot Announced

[G1911]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

Couldn't agree more, aside from my feeling that Schilling is the only deserving candidate of the lot. Having polarizing opinions is completely separate from your achievements in your career.

How does Ortiz just get in so effortlessly? It pisses me off. I never liked the guy, not that my opinion matters in the equation of his being inducted when all the other users aren't. None of them or all of them. You can't have it both ways. If Ortiz could be revoked, I would be a happy guy.

There is no longer even a pretense of objectivity. A political enemy is to be kept out for that reason, a steroid user who failed tests is to be kept out only if the media doesn’t like them or doesn’t care about them. A user who they salivate over is to be forgiven. Actually not even forgiven, the crime (treated as such for everyone else) is simply ignored. The blatant corruption and cronyism of the writers today is as bad as the Frisch days VC’s.

I am agnostic on if roiders should go in, I think it just be, ya know, logically consistent. Yes for Ortiz and no for Bonds and Clemens is nothing but an absolute joke.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by G1911

There is no longer even a pretense of objectivity. A political enemy is to be kept out for that reason, a steroid user who failed tests is to be kept out only if the media doesn’t like them or doesn’t care about them. A user who they salivate over is to be forgiven. Actually not even forgiven, the crime (treated as such for everyone else) is simply ignored. The blatant corruption and cronyism of the writers today is as bad as the Frisch days VC’s.

I am agnostic on if roiders should go in, I think it just be, ya know, logically consistent. Yes for Ortiz and no for Bonds and Clemens is nothing but an absolute joke.

Is Ortiz the only one who is in who had some chemical enhancement?

I thought Rickey was accused of also being on the sauce. And probably my paisan Piazza too.

But maybe the case for Ortiz being on something is a bit more obvious?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

Is Ortiz the only one who is in who had some chemical enhancement?

I thought Rickey was accused of also being on the sauce. And probably my paisan Piazza too.

But maybe the case for Ortiz being on something is a bit more obvious?

Question 1 is, of course, impossible for me to know. I can’t divine or know every action every player has taken in their life. I use a reasonable evidentiary basis as any reasonable person would.

Piazza has been accused. I don’t know about Rickey. Pudge I suspect probably did use. Bagwell has had suspicion. Ortiz though, failed a test unlike Bonds (who the evidence is for is common sense compelling) that the media got their hands on. That would seem to be reasonable evidence. He was the first one with real direct evidence to get in, and that event was just memory holed in the press as his much more accomplished peers were barred from admittance for the media darling to be shoveled in without any regard for consistency.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by G1911

Question 1 is, of course, impossible for me to know. I can’t divine or know every action every player has taken in their life. I use a reasonable evidentiary basis as any reasonable person would.

Piazza has been accused. I don’t know about Rickey. Pudge I suspect probably did use. Bagwell has had suspicion. Ortiz though, failed a test unlike Bonds (who the evidence is for is common sense compelling) that the media got their hands on. That would seem to be reasonable evidence. He was the first one with real direct evidence to get in, and that event was just memory holed in the press as his much more accomplished peers were barred from admittance for the media darling to be shoveled in without any regard for consistency.

I thought Canseco had accused Rickey in his book. Of course, we can debate how much weight to give to this source. But it's not nothing.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

I thought Canseco had accused Rickey in his book. Of course, we can debate how much weight to give to this source. But it's not nothing.

I don’t know, I think I read one of his books half way and threw it out for being nauseating gossip. Only Ortiz falls into this category, of material evidence and it being ignored. There is no evidence the writers have instituted a gossip standard, where any player someone has said something about are excluded. They have for guys for which there is compelling evidence like failed tests, their plugs testimony in court, order records, etc. That is what has kept a long list of names out, and for which this clear standard was ignored to induct a person they liked.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by G1911

I don’t know, I think I read one of his books half way and threw it out for being nauseating gossip. Only Ortiz falls into this category, of material evidence and it being ignored. There is no evidence the writers have instituted a gossip standard, where any player someone has said something about are excluded. They have for guys for which there is compelling evidence like failed tests, their plugs testimony in court, order records, etc. That is what has kept a long list of names out, and for which this clear standard was ignored to induct a person they liked.

Gotcha.

I guess there's also some question about the list that Ortiz was on, since it was never made public, right? And his being on that list was in some ways a bit of gossip?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

Gotcha.

I guess there's also some question about the list that Ortiz was on, since it was never made public, right? And his being on that list was in some ways a bit of gossip?

It wasn't supposed to be public, but as these things usually go, the media got their hands on the list.

If we adopted a standard where this doesn't count because it wasn't intended to be public, well, most things that happen and get caught wouldn't be admissible. Clemens order receipts and Bonds' private dealings with his trainer/drug supplier weren't supposed to be public either. And yet here we are.

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by raulus

I thought Canseco had accused Rickey in his book. Of course, we can debate how much weight to give to this source. But it's not nothing.

Jose was never the same after that ball bounced off his noggin over the fence.

[kkkkandp]

BTW - I would like to see Rickey Henderson get in because he is the King of Stolen Bases....and just so he can give his entire acceptance speech in the third person.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by kkkkandp

BTW - I would like to see Rickey Henderson get in because he is the King of Stolen Bases....and just so he can give his entire acceptance speech in the third person.

You're joking, right?

Check out YouTube for his acceptance speech. It's a thing of beauty.

"I would like to thanks the member of the Halls of Fame..."

"...and 33 steal!"

"...the San Diego Padre!"

"I guess Moms do knows best!"

Just remember, this guy is somehow in possession of one of the most brilliant baseball minds in history! No wonder he kept playing into his 50's; it's the only world where he felt comfortable.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by kkkkandp

BTW - I would like to see Rickey Henderson get in because he is the King of Stolen Bases....and just so he can give his entire acceptance speech in the third person.

Rickey is in, but now that you mention it, I feel like looking for his induction speech on Youtube to see if he was being Rickey during the speech.

Maybe in the future there will be a change for PED users.

Rafael looked pretty stupid lying to congress about his "alleged" steroid use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAxo4pCITRM

The denials from the abusers probably doesn't sit well with the BB writers. I'm not a Bonds fan, but if he didn't use PEDs, he probably would have been a HOFer with the raw talent he had. I just don't get how those guys could deny the use when their bodies were pretty much saying "yeah, I use PEDs".

One PED user was honest about it. McGwire, at least, admitted to PED use and didn't deny it like the others. And he's not in the HOF.