Top 25 Worst MLB HOFER�S

Misunderestimated · #1 11-06-2022, 09:41 PM

My preferred statistical guideline is the JAWS metric which blends career value with peak value... It show George Kelly as the 95th best 1st Basemen. Even if we give him some extra-credit for being an beloved part of some winning teams (4 pennants and 3 WS Champions 1921-24)*

.... even his nickname ("High Pockets) does not get him within shouting distance of being a HOF caliber player... There are 23 1Bs in the HOF (including some who probably get credit for managing etc like Chance and Torre and Negro League legends who we don't have many stats for)... Frank Chance, considered a low-end HOF when he's viewed purely as a player, rates as #37 Jim Bottomley scores as #56. .. Kelly is 95th !

--
* - Frankie Frisch was the 2B on all of these teams.

yanks87 · #2 11-06-2022, 10:45 PM

I don�t think Edgar Martinez belongs in. All the WAR fans will say otherwise, for me, it comes down to a very simple fact. He didn�t play the field. Baines, Warner, and all the rest that are deemed OVERRATED still played the field.

I think the hall has gotten soft, and I think there are years that there shouldn�t be inductions, for the sake of inductions. If you are going to be inducted as a DH, in my mind, you have to achieve one of the gold standards for hitters, 3000 hits or 500 homers. Since they don�t field, to be the best of the best, which is what the hall is supposed to be about, you�d have to achieve at least one of those milestones.

Was he good, yes, very good, yes, hall of fame, not in my mind.

sycks22 · #3 11-09-2022, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yanks87

I don�t think Edgar Martinez belongs in. All the WAR fans will say otherwise, for me, it comes down to a very simple fact. He didn�t play the field. Baines, Warner, and all the rest that are deemed OVERRATED still played the field.

I think the hall has gotten soft, and I think there are years that there shouldn�t be inductions, for the sake of inductions. If you are going to be inducted as a DH, in my mind, you have to achieve one of the gold standards for hitters, 3000 hits or 500 homers. Since they don�t field, to be the best of the best, which is what the hall is supposed to be about, you�d have to achieve at least one of those milestones.

Was he good, yes, very good, yes, hall of fame, not in my mind.

Martinez was a DH the last 9 years of his career, Baines was a DH the last 15 years. Tough to argue Baines played the field

G1911 · #4 11-09-2022, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycks22

Martinez was a DH the last 9 years of his career, Baines was a DH the last 15 years. Tough to argue Baines played the field

Games in the field (non-DH):
Edgar: 592
Baines: 1,061

Innings in the field:
Edgar: 4,829.1
Baines: 8,955.2

Tough to argue Baines didn't play almost twice as long in the field.

sycks22 · #5 11-09-2022, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Games in the field (non-DH):
Edgar: 592
Baines: 1,061

Innings in the field:
Edgar: 4,829.1
Baines: 8,955.2

Tough to argue Baines didn't play almost twice as long in the field.

In the last 15 years of Baines' career he played 81 games in the field out of 1838 games. If playing 4% of your games in the field means you're playing the field then that's hilarious. That's an average of 6 games per 162 season. Would you consider Big Papi playing the field when he played 5 games a season at 1st? Come on. Obviously Baines will have more games in the field than Edgar as he played for 82 years.

G1911 · #6 11-09-2022, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycks22

In the last 15 years of Baines' career he played 81 games in the field out of 1838 games. If playing 4% of your games in the field means you're playing the field then that's hilarious. That's an average of 6 games per 162 season. Would you consider Big Papi playing the field when he played 5 games a season at 1st? Come on. Obviously Baines will have more games in the field than Edgar as he played for 82 years.

No, I would not consider 5 games to be a season in the field! Which is exactly why I used the reasonable metric of GAMES and innings!

I have no idea why you would only consider part of Baines career to look at their games at DH? Except, of course, that that's the only way to pretend that he didn't play almost twice as long in the field as Edgar. Which he did. As a matter of actual fact.

Harold Baines was a terrible choice for the Hall. We don't need to cut off 7 of his best seasons to make a gymnastics argument that he didn't play a lot more in the field than Edgar.

ValKehl · #7 11-06-2022, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misunderestimated

My preferred statistical guideline is the JAWS metric which blends career value with peak value... It show George Kelly as the 95th best 1st Basemen. Even if we give him some extra-credit for being an beloved part of some winning teams (4 pennants and 3 WS Champions 1921-24)* --
* - Frankie Frisch was the 2B on all of these teams.

The NY Giants only won 2 WS during the years 1921-24. The NY Yankees and the Senators won the other 2 WS.

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