After paying their dues, should hobbyists who committed fraud be allowed back ?

oldjudge · #1 11-05-2022, 08:58 AM

I'm good with a second chance, but only one. Screw up again and you become radioactive.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #2 11-05-2022, 09:09 AM

As I get older I see more shades of gray than I used to. 10 years ago it would've been "absolutely not." Now I personally know one person I would make an exception for. Of course the more details of the story I've heard, the more I think (and he's never said this himself) that he got set up and screwed over.

Of course if part of their sentencing was that they are never allowed to go into business in the hobby again that might be a different story.

notfast · #3 11-05-2022, 09:20 AM

Nope. Why would anyone want to associate with someone who has defrauded the industry we are all involved in?

EddieP · #4 11-05-2022, 09:20 AM

The best way to be aware of fraud is to be taught by a fraudster. But I�d put them on a very, very, very, very, very short lease.

benge610 · #5 11-05-2022, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Now I personally know one person I would make an exception for. Of course the more details of the story I've heard, the more I think (and he's never said this himself) that he got set up and screwed over.

Of course if part of their sentencing was that they are never allowed to go into business in the hobby again that might be a different story.

+1

I trust your judgement in this matter, Leon.
I go back to the Full Count days and have been fortunate to interact with/learn from many.

Ben

"I love baseball history backstory; especially when it involves cards."

Bobsbats · #6 11-05-2022, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I'm good with a second chance, but only one. Screw up again and you become radioactive.

I agree 100% with Jay

JustinD · #7 11-05-2022, 12:43 PM

This is a difficult coin flip.

On one hand if people choose to use that knowledge for good and expose other fraudsters and contribute to the good of the hobby in the future, it can help our knowledge base.

Also, a second chance has helped many move on to great heights and I would appreciate it myself if I found myself in an issue due to an extreme circumstance.

The other would be those back on to do more trouble, take advantage of knowledge to advance dark skills, or have access to remove prior posts about their crimes.

I guess in the end, I agree with a second chance�not a third.

Jim65 · #8 11-05-2022, 12:49 PM

To me, it depends on the person. If they are truly remorseful, then yes. If they refuse to take responsibility, blame others, etc, then no.

Everyone makes mistakes.

JustinD · #9 11-05-2022, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim65

To me, it depends on the person. If they are truly remorseful, then yes. If they refuse to take responsibility, blame others, etc, then no.

Everyone makes mistakes.

I like this…”remorseful”

Story time…

10+ years ago I was selling on eBay to fund my life during my first cancer surgery. I must have had at least 50-100 listings up at the time. One unknowingly to me as I really did not know, was a forged Mantle signature. The only autoed item in 100 listings. Obviously, I was not an autograph seller.

That listing was posted on the board and I was called out as a scammer, forger and just about everything possible by numerous well known members. I don’t take it personally because I knew jack shit about autos at the time (I’ve gained a little over the past 13 years but still have only a starting base).

What didn’t happen was one person sending me a message on eBay to inform me, I saw the post almost a decade later searching my ID. The true backstory is that I sold it, the seller found it fake and I refunded the entire amount with an apology. Well before eBay required refunds. Lesson learned, happy buyer and I was remorseful for selling a bad item.

However, if you google search my 5000+ Feedback and 100% positive eBay ID, I sell forgeries. So, yes…I like second chances. ( I know many of those we talk about were convicted of actual crimes, but not all.)

Oscar_Stanage · #10 11-05-2022, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinD

I like this��remorseful�

Story time�

20+ years ago I was selling on eBay to fund my life during my first cancer surgery. I must have had at least 50-100 listings up at the time. One unknowingly to me as I really did not know, was a forged Mantle signature. The only autoed item in 100 listings. Obviously, I was not an autograph seller.

That listing was posted on the board and I was called out as a scammer, forger and just about everything possible by numerous well known members. I don�t take it personally because I knew jack shit about autos at the time (I�ve gained a little over the past 20 years but still have only a starting base).

What didn�t happen was one person sending me a message on eBay to inform me, I saw the post almost a decade later searching my ID. The true backstory is that I sold it, the seller found it fake and I refunded the entire amount with an apology. Well before eBay required refunds. Lesson learned, happy buyer and I was remorseful for selling a bad item.

However, if you google search my 5000+ Feedback and 100% positive eBay ID, I sell forgeries. So, yes�I like second chances. ( I know many of those we talk about were convicted of actual crimes, but not all.)

Justin, with all due respect, this was not even fraud.

G1911 · #11 11-05-2022, 04:36 PM

Let's use a recent example. It looks like Paul Slapnicker still isn't banned. Why? Does anyone think this fraudster might improve the place or provide anything of value?

raulus · #12 11-05-2022, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Let's use a recent example. It looks like Paul Slapnicker still isn't banned. Why? Does anyone think this fraudster might improve the place or provide anything of value?

You mean beyond hilarious comedic value?

Leon · #13 11-05-2022, 07:28 PM

He was only allowed on in the first place to defend himself. He tried and failed miserably. My mistake on not putting him back in the banned bucket. He is now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Let's use a recent example. It looks like Paul Slapnicker still isn't banned. Why? Does anyone think this fraudster might improve the place or provide anything of value?

JustinD · #14 11-05-2022, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscar_Stanage

Justin, with all due respect, this was not even fraud.

Agreed, it was not. However, in zeal at the time it was portrayed as such. I guess I am looking at it in a personal view. I am thinking some situations we don�t know all the facts.

I have been here quite a long time and I trust the group to handle their self-preservation. Although, that may be a poor assumption as many folks have been scammed by what seemed somewhat obvious things of late (I am NOT victim blaming or insulting people, just stating a personal observation.) I liked the idea earlier of no BST access�as that is not a possibility per Leon, I am getting convinced by the crowd that perhaps it is best to have it be No.

refz · #15 11-05-2022, 12:51 PM

No. I would like to say yes as everyone deserves a second chance, but what purpose would they serve? Limited to chat but no b/s/t makes no sense and to help broaden our defenses on scams/cons/counterfeits etc I think we are well covered with all of our experience. I say let it be

Tyruscobb · #16 11-05-2022, 01:32 PM

I'm in the No camp. Everyone deserves a second chance in society. However, this is not general society. It's a private community.

mark evans · #17 11-12-2022, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobsbats

I agree 100% with Jay

This sounds right.

Mark

View Poll Results: After paying their dues, should hobbyists who committed fraud be allowed back ?
Yes	67	18.56%
No	257	71.19%
I don't care	37	10.25%
Voters: 361. You may not vote on this poll

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