Cello Pack Fake?

[BobC]

Solving the repack question should be extremely simple. Has anyone bothered to ask Topps if they ever sold Christmas Rack Packs, or anything else like what you're all debating about? If the say no, or even they just don't remember, then I think you have the definitive answer. As Al said earlier, these are definitely real Topps cards, just repackaged by someone other than Topps. They have no Topps logos or copyright or other such distinguishing markings on them that I'm aware of, and when was the last time you saw ANY actual true Topps released product that did not? Answer is.........NEVER! Plus, had someone tried faking such, it would have made them subject to prosecution and civil liability to Topps.

As long as people realize what these truly are, and can therefore decide what to pay for one of these if they still want one, who really cares? They are sort of an oddball, almost fantasy type piece, and that is about it. There is nothing wrong with these as long as sellers are honest about what these truly are. But still, caveat emptor.

I can understand (and share) some people's curiosity to learn who did put these together then, and when, but if that info is not already readily available and out there, chances are now it may never be. It is possible the responsible party(ies) are no longer with us, or if they are, aren't open to revealing themselves in fear of negative reactions, harassment, and possibly even litigation. I bought, and still have, a Christmas Pack with 1968 Topps cards in it I got off Ebay long ago, for not a whole lot of money. Got and own it as sort of a novelty piece, and as an example of the way someone tried marketing Topps cards in the past. I could quickly see and realized what it was way back then, at least a couple decades or more ago. And though not an actual Topps issue, it does represent a legitimate, albeit alternate, form of marketing Topps cards.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by BobC

Solving the repack question should be extremely simple. Has anyone bothered to ask Topps if they ever sold Christmas Rack Packs, or anything else like what you're all debating about? If the say no, or even they just don't remember, then I think you have the definitive answer. .

Whether or not Topps made them is not the point of debate. They didn't. That much as far as I know has never been in question.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Whether or not Topps made them is not the point of debate. They didn't. That much as far as I know has never been in question.

My mistake then, but I thought part of the question had to do with whether or not Topps was somehow involved in these, and/or that some people still weren't sure if these were possibly considered on a par as legit unopened packs then. I thought a post or two in this thread referred to some people still thinking these may be legit unopened packs somehow, and there were Youtube videos of people opening them with that thinking in mind.

My comment was not directed at you or several others in this thread that realize these were repacks by someone else. My comment was meant more for anyone who may still not realize, or fully believe, Topps had nothing to do with these. And that since it hadn't been mentioned by anyone else in the thread, if there was anyone with a potential lingering question about these being legit unopened packs, asking Topps about them should be the most definitive way to have originally answered that question. I was actually a bit surprised no one else in this thread said anything about Topps officials being asked if the company ever issued or had any known involvement with issuing such Christmas packs, and the comeback was a resounding no.

So just for the record, does anyone know if Topps officials were ever formally asked about these, and if so, what was their official response?

[ALR-bishop]

Justin---peace buddy. Sorry for my tone

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Justin---peace buddy. Sorry for my tone

Lol, no worries.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by BobC

My comment was not directed at you or several others in this thread that realize these were repacks by someone else. My comment was meant more for anyone who may still not realize, or fully believe, Topps had nothing to do with these. And that since it hadn't been mentioned by anyone else in the thread, if there was anyone with a potential lingering question about these being legit unopened packs, asking Topps about them should be the most definitive way to have originally answered that question.

Again. I have never seen anyone assert that they were a Topps-issued product. So yes, one could ask Topps, but I'm not sure why that would be necessary. I would be more interested to know if the repacking (for at least some of them) occured in 1963, or if they are all post 1980's shams. From what I can tell the majority here believe that these are not "vintage era" (pre-1980) repacks at all.

[ALR-bishop]

John---that's the question that interests me. When were the first Christmas repacks produced, where, by whom and did they really ever show up in big retail stores. The lack of any real evidence about earlier production and distribution would seem to indicate they may all be post 1980, or in the case of many of them even later, productions

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

John---that's the question that interests me. When were the first Christmas repacks produced, where, by whom and did they really ever show up in big retail stores. The lack of any real evidence about earlier production and distribution would seem to indicate they may all be post 1980, or in the case of many of them even later, productions

Exactly. The idea is very appealing - I would like to believe that some of these are real (in terms of the vintage timeframe). But I'm not sure that I do.

[steve B]

With the crazy prices being asked now, I can see someone making them. Especially the ones showing stars.

The one I bought is a 58, and has a High number on the back. At the time I bought it, the price I paid wasn't much different than buying a High number and a handful of commons.

I'd have to do a bunch of looking stuff up, but when they were first put out there, I think it was still fairly easy to pick up batches of commons from most years in fairly good condition. By the time the other years came around like 52s it didn't seem like it would be worth the effort for some sets.

What's interesting is that and lets just go with assumptions.
The first were repacks done sometime around the late 90's
Then there were more later.
And the same graphic is still available and being used for stocking shape repacks of various kinds today.
That's 20+ years if not more like 30 of the same graphics on a commercially available cellophane sleeve.
That's kind of impressive.
And who makes those wrappers shouldn't be much of a secret.

A quick internet search found nothing though, so the wrapping may only be available in bulk or the packer makes it themselves, indicating a bigger company.

[steve B]

I don't know how I missed the posts prior, or if they came in while I was making mine.

Anyway...

The ad with the stocking would seem to be the same stocking sleeve that's used now, more than 50 years later. That's really a surprise.

I wonder if any of those Christmas offers had Topps product numbers? Or if they were more generic.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Again. I have never seen anyone assert that they were a Topps-issued product. So yes, one could ask Topps, but I'm not sure why that would be necessary. I would be more interested to know if the repacking (for at least some of them) occured in 1963, or if they are all post 1980's shams. From what I can tell the majority here believe that these are not "vintage era" (pre-1980) repacks at all.

Again, my mistake then as I thought there were some that still weren't sure if these were Topps issued or not, and wasn't confining that to just the people posting in this thread.

And I am actually curious, like yourself and some others, as to who was doing these repacks, when they did start, and how they were being distributed (retail stores, flea markets, etc.), as well. And though it may be a reach, did anyone think to contact Topps about these on the off chance that they actually may know something about them? Though not especially likely, it is possible that whoever started doing these had contacted Topps to see if they would have an issue with what they ended up doing. Or upon finding out about these Christmas and other packs and seeing them out there for sale, someone from Topps may have been charged with investigating who was doing this to make sure no lines were being crossed in regard to the Topps name or products. Would have thought that would be a rather obvious source to at least question if someone were truly and very seriously investigating this issue. I'm only curious, and not that concerned to contact Topps myself. Just wondering if someone else may have thought to contact and ask Topps though, and if so, what they found out.

And I go along with the majority in thinking these aren't likely "vintage" either. What throws me though are the claims that some people have opened these and actually found some valuable cards in them. One would tend to think that by the 80's, the more valuable cards from the much earlier vintage sets would be well known, and therefore very unlikely to have been included by scammers putting together these then sham packs. Or is it possible the people making statements about finding valuable cards in one of the repacks, or supposedly showing it on a video of one of these repacks being opened, are also party to the sham? It is also possible that a scammer putting these together may not have known every valuable card in the sets, and mistakenly missed and included a few that some very lucky person(s) found. Honestly don't know, and realize this is something we may never truly know.

[ALR-bishop]

While I do not recall any sellers claiming these were Topps originated packs, I do think some sellers imply that Topps sold or gave some excess inventory to a specific 3d party to repackage and sell at retail. I have never seen any specific documentation or substantiation of that

[jmoran19]

Here’s a flyer for 1969 Topps stockings. I’m fairly certain that any Xmas stockings produce by Topps or in conjunction with Topps had cards packaged inside a wax or cello wrapping then inserted in the stocking, not loose like the current ebay Xmas stockings.

John

[BobC]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

While I do not recall any sellers claiming these were Topps originated packs, I do think some sellers imply that Topps sold or gave some excess inventory to a specific 3d party to repackage and sell at retail. I have never seen any specific documentation or substantiation of that

And I seem to remember hearing that as well somewhere. And another reason I'd asked about anyone having contacted Topps regarding this to see what they may know or remember. If Topps was selling excess inventory to a specific 3rd party for retail sale, one would think Topps should have some kind of record of that, and who the 3rd party was. But you don't know unless you try asking!

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

While I do not recall any sellers claiming these were Topps originated packs, I do think some sellers imply that Topps sold or gave some excess inventory to a specific 3d party to repackage and sell at retail. I have never seen any specific documentation or substantiation of that

I feel that old’ Sy seemed to have an internal hustle most of the time and while he may have sold overstock at a discount it just seems weird that the repacker removed them all from the packs first. The documented example had them in the pack. I am sure he had overstock but I doubt he let store owners return it like is done now. I would like to know how those early years dumped.

When the late 70s and early 80s came along they used fun packs to dump overstock. The Halloween fun packs were repacked in the rainbow wrappers, but that seemed like more of a money hustle so they could shrink the packs down to 4 cards and have more packs with less cards.

After those, I remember my LCS would get the overstock cheap and sell them for 5 bucks a box. Those were the boxes that I still see with the big paint marker slash across the lid.

I feel these are going to remain a hobby mystery forever unless someone finds some real proof. That seems like one needle in an Sears Tower sized haystack.