CSG status

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

While it is only one man's opinion, happened to stumble upon this https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...507423&page=24, the other day. See the short discussion from post 587 and on midway down the page.

I have known Andy B for around 25 yrs and have spent many hours with him talking about grading. He is the best I have seen though I think there are a few senior graders at PSA that are really good too. Andy, while at BVG, did the scientific homework on my Yum Yum when SGC couldn't. OF course PSA agreed with Andy and put it in a 1 holder too. And there are more instances like this. I definitely would trust PSA and CSG over SGC for vintage, but that is just me.
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[GasHouseGang]

I wouldn't say I'm a fan of CSG, but during the pandemic when the wait to get anything graded by PSA was over a year, some collectors submitted cards to CSG and then sold them on Net54. Here are a few I picked up. The green flip actually kind of works with these cards.

[1952boyntoncollector]

As time goes on and if they stick to doing a good job and dont sell out and lower standards or other sheniangians they got a good chance to keep getting more of a following.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

As time goes on and if they stick to doing a good job and dont sell out and lower standards or other sheniangians they got a good chance to keep getting more of a following.

Perhaps but if PSA keeps dropping its prices as seems inevitable, it's hard to imagine the incentive for most people to go to a non mainstream grader.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Perhaps but if PSA keeps dropping its prices as seems inevitable, it's hard to imagine the incentive for most people to go to a non mainstream grader.

right like the PGA tour suddenly going to pay more prizes to golfers now that LIV ..competition is good

[Eric72]

Consider this purely hypothetical situation:

There are four identical copies of card #123 from the 1919 Super Duper Ball Card set. Same grade, same centering, etc., etc.

One is in a PSA holder, another SGC, one CSG, and one BVG. Asking prices below, and they're from the same seller...so your wheeling & dealing will amount to the same discount, if any.

PSA: $500
SGC: $450
CSG: $300
BVG: $300

Which one would you buy?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Consider this purely hypothetical situation:

There are four identical copies of card #123 from the 1919 Super Duper Ball Card set. Same grade, same centering, etc., etc.

One is in a PSA holder, another SGC, one CSG, and one BVG. Asking prices below, and they're from the same seller...so your wheeling & dealing will amount to the same discount, if any.

PSA: $500
SGC: $450
CSG: $300
BVG: $300

Which one would you buy?

depends on the grade and POP ....lower grades with high POP to me cross over a lot easier

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

depends on the grade and POP ....lower grades with high POP to me cross over a lot easier

The question has nothing to do with the Pop or grades.
He specifically said it's virtually the same card.

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[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

The question has nothing to do with the Pop or grades.
He specifically said it's virtually the same card.

.

right its the same card but what is the grade and POP of the this card, i dont think its crazy to consider that as a factor of whether you can crossover the card..

Like i wouldnt think a rickey henderson BVG 10 would cross to a PSA 10, but i would take my chances that a BVG 4 (and pay less) would cross to a PSA 4 for example..doesnt mean i will be wrong or right on the cross but i did think it was a ok question to ask

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Leon

The question has nothing to do with the Pop or grades.
He specifically said it's virtually the same card.

.

Its always about the POP. Popsicle. When will my cards pop. Balloon Knot Pop. Pop goes the weasel. POP POP. I'll have another Ice cold Sody Pop. I'm gonna have some Popcorn. I felt something Pop in my neck. Hop on Pop. What's the pop. Pop Pop Pop

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Consider this purely hypothetical situation:

There are four identical copies of card #123 from the 1919 Super Duper Ball Card set. Same grade, same centering, etc., etc.

One is in a PSA holder, another SGC, one CSG, and one BVG. Asking prices below, and they're from the same seller...so your wheeling & dealing will amount to the same discount, if any.

PSA: $500
SGC: $450
CSG: $300
BVG: $300

Which one would you buy?

It's a bad hypothetical because just from the slabs, the buyer could not be sure the cards were identical. You're injecting additional information. In a real world situation people have to make judgments about the competence of the TPG at detecting alterations, for example.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Consider this purely hypothetical situation:

There are four identical copies of card #123 from the 1919 Super Duper Ball Card set. Same grade, same centering, etc., etc.

One is in a PSA holder, another SGC, one CSG, and one BVG. Asking prices below, and they're from the same seller...so your wheeling & dealing will amount to the same discount, if any.

PSA: $500
SGC: $450
CSG: $300
BVG: $300

Which one would you buy?

As the cards are identical, I'd buy the CSG or the BVG every time. Buy the card not the holder. Why would I pay 60% more for the same card?

[G1911]

Raw for less than $300.

[Casey2296]

Specifically addressing pre-war and CSG. They spent 100's of thousands of $$ launching with a lime green label, all they had to do was come to this sub and see the multiple threads pointing out Lime green and pre war don't go together, not to mention the fact that the label is almost the size of a T206. Or, Andy could have taken Leon to lunch and asked what the ultimate pre war flip would look like, much cheaper approach.

That being said, they got rid of the lime green ptl and went to black and white. What they missed is the fact that prewar always looks better with a black apron, it's unbelievable to me that in today's advanced world (remember I can eat a banana in space with Musk if I have enough money) that you can't just have a pull down option, black apron or not? Hand cut black apron for your Scrapps tobacco? No problem, SGC won't do that.

Seriously, Andy is one of the best pre war graders out there, why wouldn't they just concentrate on capturing that market? Makes no sense to me.

[alsup2311]

My family and I have been selling our collection of T205s, 6s, 10s, and E series cards on and off again for over 25 years to generate income for my grandmother. This past summer my family decided to give me what was left, ~220 raw cards. I took the poor to good condition Brown Hindus, some tough Old Mills/OMSL, a couple HOF Tolstoi cards, and a few other random cards and auctioned them on Ebay as raw non graded cards. I was very happy with the results.

A few examples:

Good condition T206 Hindu George Stone sold for $2,024.99

Fair condition T206 Tolstoi Frank Chance Batting sold for $443.00

Poor condition T206 Hindu Kitty Bransfield sold for $718.00


I took what I thought was my best six and sent them to SGC. When I got them back they went on Ebay. I was very happy with the results.

Two examples:

SGC 3 T206 Ed Walsh, Old Mill sold for $4,675.00

SGC 2.5 T206 Clark Griffith Portrait, Hindu sold for $2,836.63

Then I took 185 cards and sent them to CSG. 172 I submitted as bulk for $12 per card! 13 of them a sent as Economy. I got the 13 back pretty quick, but I am waiting on the 172. I put the 13 on Ebay (straight auction) with no idea how they would do. Here are the results with my thoughts.

1. 1909-11 E90-1 Roger Bresnahan CSG 1 sold for $100. (IMO, I think a SGC 1 would have got over $200.)

2. T206 Old Mill Sam Crawford with Bat CSG 2.5 sold for $536.65. (I was happy. I think a SGC 2.5 would have performed similar.)

3. T206 Christy Mathewson White Cap, Piedmont Series 150 Fac 25, CSG 1 sold for $637.00. (Not bad, I think a SGC might have fetched an extra $50 to $75.)

4. T206 Addie Joss Portrait, Piedmont 350, CSG 2 sold for $356.00. (I was happy. I don't think an SGC 2 would have done too much better)

5. T206 Old Mill Vic Willis with Bat, CSG 2 sold for $338.33. (This card had great eye appeal and would have popped in a SGC slab. I think this move cost me over $100 in value.)

6. T206 Old Mill Joe Kelley Toronto HOF, CSG 5.5 sold for $460. (This was the most disappointing. I think a SGC 5.5 would have gotten over $800.)

7. T206 Miller Huggins Portrait Sweet Caporal 350/25, CSG 2.5 sold for $205.50. (This card had great centering and eye appeal. I think that SGC tuxedo would have pulled an extra $100.)

8. T206 Old Mill Nap Lajoie batting, CSG 1 sold for $716. (I was very happy. I don't think a SGC 1 would have gotten more.)

9. T206 Iron Man Joe McGinnity, CSG 1.5 sold for $129.50. (SGC might have gotten me $200 or more)

10. 1909-11 E90-1, Christy Mathewson, CSG 1.5 sold for $735. (I was happy. A SGC 1.5 might have pulled $800.)

11. T206 Vic Willis Portrait Pittsburgh Piedmont 150 - CSG 2 sold for $200.50. (A SGC 2 might have pulled another $50 to $75. It was not a great looking card.)

12. T206 Old Mill Frank Home Run Baker, CSG 2 sold for $436.01. (I was happy. This card had a major crease, but great eye appeal.)

13. T206 Old Mill Eddie Collins Philadelphia HOF, CSG 1 sold for $401.79. ( I was very happy.

Thanks for reading my take.

R/S
Dan

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

As the cards are identical, I'd buy the CSG or the BVG every time. Buy the card not the holder. Why would I pay 60% more for the same card?

Because part of the payment is the fact the card got a grade with PSA and there is a mystery whether you can get that same card in the same holder, the card is the same but you are submitting it to PSA at a later time, different person can be grading it, you are a different submitter than the person that submitted in previously so that part is not identical

plus you plan on selling the holder even if you are not buying the holder...sell the holder not the card..

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have known Andy B for around 25 yrs and have spent many hours with him talking about grading. He is the best I have seen though I think there are a few senior graders at PSA that are really good too. Andy, while at BVG, did the scientific homework on my Yum Yum when SGC couldn't. OF course PSA agreed with Andy and put it in a 1 holder too. And there are more instances like this. I definitely would trust PSA and CSG over SGC for vintage, but that is just me.
.

That is great to hear Leon. And at least you put your name to your opinion. Easy to talk BS when nobody knows who you are. As stated above, I imagine that CSG is doing a much better and more ethical job than both PSA and SGC.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

That is great to hear Leon. And at least you put your name to your opinion. Easy to talk BS when nobody knows who you are. As stated above, I imagine that CSG is doing a much better and more ethical job than both PSA and SGC.

My guess is we see some more from CSG. Stay tuned...
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[Peter_Spaeth]

Pip didn't put his name to his opinion but Glyn did and I have a lot of respect for his. And for Leon's.

[Lorewalker]

I have always avoided BVG material. Saw way too much that I did not like. I am not saying Glyn is wrong but are we now going to assume or conclude that Andy gave the green light to every vintage card that hit the market from BVG?

Not trying to get into a pissing contest because what I have learned over the last few years, very quickly, is that TPG is a pretty corrupt business when ya get down to it. Just a matter of to what degree.

[rugbymarine]

I just purchased my first CSG slab recently. High grade, modern-ish basketball. I was impressed with the slab, and the accuracy of the grade. The cards cost about 20% of the same grade in a PSA holder.

In the interest of 'buy the card, not the holder', I've been adding CSG to my searches and would feel comfortable buying them. In my mind, if I can acquire cards I'm looking for at a significant discount, I'll certainly consider it.

I will say that since they aren't as established as a grading company, I spend a lot more time zooming in on cards to see if the grade is 'correct' to my eyes.