CSG status

[Lorewalker]

Yet to buy a CSG graded card and it is not in my future to do so any more than I would buy a BVG card. I see the two companies as the same not just because the head grader association. Neither BVG nor CSG are used regularly, if at all, by any of the auction houses which should say something. I feel both companies fill a niche in the hobby but it is at the collector and flipper levels.

As far as the well documented consistent problems with SGC and PSA both grading large volumes of altered cards and alleged favors to higher profile submitters my gut tells me there is a better chance a CSG card is graded more accurately. At the end of the day it is about the hobby's demand and the prices for CSG material is still below SGC which means the prices are well below PSA.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It might be an interesting case study to analyze why, even with major issues affecting the reputations of and satisfaction with the largest industry players and even more so the past couple of years with the "scandal," it apparently remains so difficult for new entrants to join their ranks. I mean look at PSA, massive scandal over altered cards, major crisis with backlog, huge issues with grading fees, but it just cruises right along.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It might be an interesting case study to analyze why, even with major issues affecting the reputations of and satisfaction with the largest industry players and even more so the past couple of years with the "scandal," it apparently remains so difficult for new entrants to join their ranks. I mean look at PSA, massive scandal over altered cards, major crisis with backlog, huge issues with grading fees, but it just cruises right along.

i honestly thought the BODA findings would have a devastating affect on the hobby...NOPE! Too many people who don't know or just don't care.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i honestly thought the BODA findings would have a devastating affect on the hobby...NOPE! Too many people who don't know or just don't care.

The hobby yawned and moved on.

It's funny, for years I thought the only real risk to owning a lot of graded cards was a scandal, although I didn't foresee a BODA type thing but rather was worried some insider would break down end talk. Wrong. Teflon. Joe was absolutely right to play ostrich and just wait it out.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The hobby yawned and moved on.

It's funny, for years I thought the only thing real risk to owning a lot of graded cards was a scandal, although I didn't foresee a BODA type thing but rather was worried some insider would break down and talk. Wrong. Teflon. Joe was absolutely right to play ostrich and just wait it out.

ya...it's shocking that to date...no former graders have come out with the real truth about what goes on behind the curtain.

Someday!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

ya...it's shocking that to date...no former graders have come out with the real truth about what goes on behind the curtain.

Someday!

I honestly don't get it. Maybe they're all cashing in on their connections (some doubtless are), I don't know.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

ya...it's shocking that to date...no former graders have come out with the real truth about what goes on behind the curtain.

Someday!

Yup! Whistleblowing is not paying the bills.

[glynparson]

I’ll buy in person not online. And the guy being from Beckett is in no way a positive to me. I find Beckett to have quality holders and joke grading. I get PSA and sgc miss things but not to the percent level Beckett has in my opinion. I trust Beckett about as much as I trust a raw card coming from someone exposed by blowout.

[abothebear]

Most people won’t change from what they are doing unless it is financially beneficial for them to do so. A job well-done, a more principles approach, or a better reputation sounds good. And people may wish for those things, or even speak out for or against a party with passionate and well-reasoned words, but they’ll vote with their wallets. And so, like with many things, whatever is will remain. One voters vote has no statistical impact on what happens, so why harm yourself to accomplish nothing? The buyer and seller aren’t going to be the agents of change. Perhaps if the markets did something there might be some movement, but even there, unless it was eBay, it would have to be a substantial group of auction houses that collectively decided not to take consignments of PSA cards (or SCG or whatever) before it started making a difference in the values relative to others.

I think PSA’s price increase and slow turn around have actually helped them maintain their value position. If it was cheap and fast to resubmit, more people would be in on the other graders’ sales in order to resubmit to PSA, driving up the values or this other graders’ cards.

[hockeyhockey]

used them twice. the original time was an $8 bulk submission. kind of a cheap way to get a card pre-graded, i suppose. they are considered harsh graders, but most cards came back 9 or better.

the original flip was awful. sent a few 9.5 from the original to be re-slabbed as 10 in the new flip. as far as value, they are clearly lower on the market. but i'd consider buying their cards to bust out and re-submit to PSA (also sold a hockey card in a CSG 10 that got a pretty strong return...maybe $15 less than PSA).

[3-2-count]

Take a look how hideous T206’s display in their slab.

Vacuum sealed in a penny sleeve. No thanks.

[Lorewalker]

Everyone wants what everyone else wants. The scandal did not impact the demand for PSA and I doubt it influenced collectors' opinion that SGC or another company was a better choice. People doubled down and then some on PSA in spite of the information that was circulating.

My guess is that CSG is probably doing a much better job at grading than both SGC and PSA but the masses want PSA and if not some are willing to take SGC.

The disparity in the demand for PSA is multiple times that of SGC. SGC is probably the more consistent of the graders too.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Everyone wants what everyone else wants. The scandal did not impact the demand for PSA and I doubt it influenced collectors' opinion that SGC or another company was a better choice. People doubled down and then some on PSA in spite of the information that was circulating.

My guess is that CSG is probably doing a much better job at grading than both SGC and PSA but the masses want PSA and if not some are willing to take SGC.

The disparity in the demand for PSA is multiple times that of SGC. SGC is probably the more consistent of the graders too.

+1

[JimC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It might be an interesting case study to analyze why, even with major issues affecting the reputations of and satisfaction with the largest industry players and even more so the past couple of years with the "scandal," it apparently remains so difficult for new entrants to join their ranks. I mean look at PSA, massive scandal over altered cards, major crisis with backlog, huge issues with grading fees, but it just cruises right along.

Why do people still use big banks?

[luciobar1980]

All the grading companies are inconsistent and make mistakes, IMO. I've used CSG and like their holders, and their new labels are much better than the originals. I'll submit to CSG or SGC any day over PSA.

[JMANOS]

and will be a player in the near future no question. Best graders and BY FARRRR best customer service for sure IMO.

[kmac32]

They are reasonable for slabbing my S74 silks.

[frankbmd]

The hobby is it’s own worst enemy.

Monopolies control their market niche. Price fixing is a typical result. Customer service is irrelevant. Competition is not a factor. Having a million cards in a warehouse is an asset, not a problem. There will be more than a million in the warehouse when those are graded. Selling subjective and selective grades rather than cards to hype their intangible product is magic. Creating a Registry of their product is divine.

Customers belly ache about 12 month turn around times, but they still send their cards in for a number and a two bit slab. Appreciation in market value attracts fraudulent operators, who share the wealth with limited risk as long as they stay one step ahead of the $9/hour graders working in the sweatshop. What’s not to love?

It’s really hard to understand the impetus for anti-trust legistration, and the creation of Unions, when organizations like PSA are out there as role models. At least unionized card graders would be able to drink on the job.