Would you buy a high end (10k) raw card?

rhettyeakley · #1 08-23-2022, 09:19 PM

Yes I would. I trust my own determination of the card more than any grading company.

3-2-count · #2 08-23-2022, 09:43 PM

Yes for me, but only if I could examine it in hand in person.

Casey2296 · #3 08-23-2022, 10:06 PM

Yes, but only if we can make the exchange in person, on a stormy night, in an abandoned warehouse somewhere in Cleveland...

Like Ryan said, if the parties involved are known, honest, and have integrity, sounds like a fun deal to me.

Carter08 · #4 08-23-2022, 10:30 PM

Fraudsters are very sophisticated and technology at their disposal is only getting better. I think the only way someone does a deal on a raw card at that price and feels comfortable doing it is if he or she is confident in it but is also getting it at what is perceived to be a nice discount from what the cost would be slabbed. Obviously the older the card the better. Harder to fake 100 years old than it is to fake 40 years old.

brunswickreeves · #5 08-24-2022, 06:10 AM

Anything of that value, the seller should be so confident it will pass grading for number or authenticity they offer a 30 day return. Conversely, the buyer should be so skeptical it is not authentic, they should send it in for expedited grading. If passes, win-win. If doesn't, can return to seller, no harm no foul.

Snapolit1 · #6 08-24-2022, 06:59 AM

Would you trust buying a house on your own eyeball examination and decline the services of a professional home inspector?

Would you buy an expensive car and trust your own personal examination and decline reviewing the car fax report?

Would you buy a franchise from someone and just examine the books yourself, or would you hire a professional accountant who does it for a living?

There are people on the board of who are 100% certain of their own powers to avoid fraud. I am not one of them.

Twice in the last decade I have bought counterfeit items from auction houses that are held in the highest esteem on this board. Honest mistakes that were fixed but still mistakes.

ullmandds · #7 08-24-2022, 07:17 AM

When you've been engrossed in a hobby you are passionate about for 40 years you develop expertise. Sadly with the mass slabbing of cards fewer and fewer people...especially those just entering the hobby in the last 20 years will never hold raw cards in their hands. They will never feel the nuances of varying paper/cardboard stock. They put their trust blindly in minimum wage employees at the grading companies. It's comical to me the attitude that all cards of value should be in slabs and if not they can't be real?

So anyway...per mikes request...here are my purchases. Both from EBAY...1 from a long time dealer/seller...the another from a widow.

The first was a grouping of 5 blue bird babe ruth cards. When I first saw the listing I thought...how crazy...to be selling all 5 together. Seller claimed these were acquired from the "find" of blue birds in the 80's I believe. Prior to this "find" this issue was virtually unknown to the hobby...and likely part of the reason they did not command much respect until the last few years.

It was a BIN...actually a fairly reasonable BIN...but I made an offer...and it was accepted.

The other I heard of through a facebook group. Someone posted questioning the authenticity of a raw E95 Wagner on ebay. I checked it out...it looked grreat to me...so I jumped on it. I then emailed the seller and asked if she had others. She had 2/3 sets of e93/e95 plus a smattering of a few dozen other random cards. I made a deal with her for all of it. She also "threw" in a bunch of other cards inclusing t205 cobb/johnson and a 33 gehrig.

I was nervous as hell waiting for all of these cards to arrive. When I had them in hand I knew they were all legit.

My plan was to sell most and keep a few...which I did!

G1911 · #8 08-24-2022, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Would you trust buying a house on your own eyeball examination and decline the services of a professional home inspector?

Would you buy an expensive car and trust your own personal examination and decline reviewing the car fax report?

Would you buy a franchise from someone and just examine the books yourself, or would you hire a professional accountant who does it for a living?

There are people on the board of who are 100% certain of their own powers to avoid fraud. I am not one of them.

Twice in the last decade I have bought counterfeit items from auction houses that are held in the highest esteem on this board. Honest mistakes that were fixed but still mistakes.

This would make some sense, if the graders had a track record better than they have. From thousands of publicly outed trimmed cards to complete fakes to gift grades to being so incompetent they have to shut down their auto grading entirely, they do not have this track record. How is an unknown grader at PSA or SGC better able to evaluate? If one is dropping $10K, and one can�t authenticate items yourself, one shouldn�t be buying that item. That�s a lot of money for someone who doesn�t know that set to spend.

Caveat emptor. One can learn the subject and evaluate themselves, or outsource it to companies with long records of corruption and/or incompetence, frauds, fakes, gift grades and alterations. I don�t see the later as preferable. One should evaluate the card, not rely on what kind of plastic it is in.

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