T206 520 set ?

[53toppscollector]

One thing to note, however, is that not all Sovereign 150s and Old Mills are created equally.

For a lot of the Print Group 1 subjects, the Old Mill is much much harder than the Sovereign. In some cases, there are 4 or 5x more Sov150s than Old Mills.

[Rhotchkiss]

Don’t forget the brown old mills, blue old mills, and blank backs!

[HobokenJon]

To do this right, you’d really need to look at the different pops subject by subject. Plenty of subjects in the 150-350 series are much tougher with Old Mill backs than brown Hindu or other rare backs. Likewise, the toughest back in the 350-only series for numerous subjects is Tolstoi — even tougher than Drum.

[MR RAREBACK]

If we shave some of the harder backs down what would it look like say for instance
Lenox brown 2
Broadleaf 460 4
Drum 8
Uzit 8
Hindu red 8
Lenox black 20
Broadleaf 20
Carolina 20
Hindu 80

[stutor]

Great question. Several cards aren’t possible with only the backs listed in the original post. Cobb portrait green and Crawford throwing for instance. There are several of these. As HobokenJon said, the 150/350 OMs would most definitely be a requisite part of such a set.

[nineunder71]

This is very interesting.

James, PM sent regarding a couple questions on the bottom half of your Post #2.

As Sonny mentioned, my first thought is there should be at least 2 OMs (not to mention any of those super tough Print Group 1’s that have lower pop than any other back): Elberfeld portrait Wash & Cobb Green (much tougher than Sov150)

Also, I have less than 7 total Sovereign 350s for my off-back set and I think those subjects should be easy to figure out. Probably an instance like the Cobb Green.

The overall numbers there James, really look great, thanks for posting that research! As others stated, wow it would be a ton of research to start actually drilling into the exact total population of each subject’s rare backs, but it would be extremely neat to have this tallied somewhere.

Thanks for the post and look forward to seeing where this goes

Colton

[nineunder71]

Here’s two

[53toppscollector]

Originally Posted by nineunder71

This is very interesting.

James, PM sent regarding a couple questions on the bottom half of your Post #2.

As Sonny mentioned, my first thought is there should be at least 2 OMs (not to mention any of those super tough 150/350s that have lower pop than any other back): Elberfeld portrait Wash & Cobb Green (much tougher than Sov150)

Also, I have less than 7 total Sovereign 350s for my off-back set and I think those subjects should be easy to figure out. Probably an instance like the Cobb Green.

The overall numbers there James, really look great, thanks for posting that research! As others stated, wow it would be a ton of research to start actually drilling into the exact total population of each subject’s rare backs, but it would be extremely neat to have this tallied somewhere.

Thanks for the post and look forward to seeing where this goes

Colton

Will be easier to respond here. My list, again, was using the general scarcity rankings. As I caveated in the follow up to my original post, a lot of the Old Mills are far more scarce than Soverign 150s, for example, so my list was a breakdown using the general scarcity ranking, not the relative scarcities.

For the Sovereign 350 Apple Green, I have these:

Frank Smith White Cap: I show this one with EPDG, Old Mill, Polar Bear and Tolstoi, all which rank lower based on the list provided in my intro to my post (that comes from Scot Reader). The EPDG, Old Mill and Tolstoi actually have a lower pop for the front/back combo than the Sov350.

Kleinow NY Catching: Same as above

Rhoades Right Arm Extends: Same as above

Doyle (NY, Hands Above Head): I originally missed this one in the above and thought it was Tolstoi, but in checking the checklist again, it appears the Doyle is an Apple Green and not a Forest Green, so I will adjust that one.

Tolstoi:

Byrne - Only other off back I see is a Sov350 Forest Green
Cross - I only see the Tolstoi for off backs
Doyle (NY Hands Above Head)
Mowery - Only other off back is the Sov350 Forest Green
Rossman - There is only 1 copy, as far as I can tell

EPDG:

Lundgren Chicago - I believe EPDG was the only off back for this front
Jennings Portrait - Has a Sov350FG and Old Mill, the Old Mill is by far the lowest pop count

Sovereign 350 Forest Green:

Browne (Was) - The Old Mill has a much lower pop count
Crawford (Throwing) - Same as above
Dahlen (Brooklyn) - Same as above
O'Hara (NY) - I think this is O'Hara's only off back

At some point I will put together the 520 with the lowest pop counts for each individual card. I have the data, it will just take a while

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by stutor

Great question. Several cards aren’t possible with only the backs listed in the original post. Cobb portrait green and Crawford throwing for instance. There are several of these. As HobokenJon said, the 150/350 OMs would most definitely be a requisite part of such a set.

Sonny, like you know anything about a complete 520 set of tough t206 combos

[Ronnie73]

This is why it's easier to just collect all 5000+ different combinations. Years ago, I made lists for 520 card sets with eliminating certain common backs. Back in 2011, there was only a couple of us that were working on a non Piedmont/Sweet Caporal set. It really wasn't that popular. I would say that around five years ago, it became more popular to build the set that way.

[stutor]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Sonny, like you know anything about a complete 520 set of tough t206 combos

Ha. I’ve been at it for a while. This project is a tough row to hoe. This thread really rings true with my collector focus. I don’t try for the ‘ultimate set’ necessarily, but I do try to find the juncture of the rarity curve and the aesthetic curve. If anyone is interested in what a hard back / mostly nice set can be, here is the link to what I have managed to build. If you have cards I need or better examples of what I have, I’m willing to trade or purchase for at or more than fair value.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/146321797@N05/Pu037e41t3