T206 520 set ?

[stutor]

Great question. Several cards aren’t possible with only the backs listed in the original post. Cobb portrait green and Crawford throwing for instance. There are several of these. As HobokenJon said, the 150/350 OMs would most definitely be a requisite part of such a set.

[nineunder71]

This is very interesting.

James, PM sent regarding a couple questions on the bottom half of your Post #2.

As Sonny mentioned, my first thought is there should be at least 2 OMs (not to mention any of those super tough Print Group 1’s that have lower pop than any other back): Elberfeld portrait Wash & Cobb Green (much tougher than Sov150)

Also, I have less than 7 total Sovereign 350s for my off-back set and I think those subjects should be easy to figure out. Probably an instance like the Cobb Green.

The overall numbers there James, really look great, thanks for posting that research! As others stated, wow it would be a ton of research to start actually drilling into the exact total population of each subject’s rare backs, but it would be extremely neat to have this tallied somewhere.

Thanks for the post and look forward to seeing where this goes

Colton

[nineunder71]

Here’s two

[53toppscollector]

Originally Posted by nineunder71

This is very interesting.

James, PM sent regarding a couple questions on the bottom half of your Post #2.

As Sonny mentioned, my first thought is there should be at least 2 OMs (not to mention any of those super tough 150/350s that have lower pop than any other back): Elberfeld portrait Wash & Cobb Green (much tougher than Sov150)

Also, I have less than 7 total Sovereign 350s for my off-back set and I think those subjects should be easy to figure out. Probably an instance like the Cobb Green.

The overall numbers there James, really look great, thanks for posting that research! As others stated, wow it would be a ton of research to start actually drilling into the exact total population of each subject’s rare backs, but it would be extremely neat to have this tallied somewhere.

Thanks for the post and look forward to seeing where this goes

Colton

Will be easier to respond here. My list, again, was using the general scarcity rankings. As I caveated in the follow up to my original post, a lot of the Old Mills are far more scarce than Soverign 150s, for example, so my list was a breakdown using the general scarcity ranking, not the relative scarcities.

For the Sovereign 350 Apple Green, I have these:

Frank Smith White Cap: I show this one with EPDG, Old Mill, Polar Bear and Tolstoi, all which rank lower based on the list provided in my intro to my post (that comes from Scot Reader). The EPDG, Old Mill and Tolstoi actually have a lower pop for the front/back combo than the Sov350.

Kleinow NY Catching: Same as above

Rhoades Right Arm Extends: Same as above

Doyle (NY, Hands Above Head): I originally missed this one in the above and thought it was Tolstoi, but in checking the checklist again, it appears the Doyle is an Apple Green and not a Forest Green, so I will adjust that one.

Tolstoi:

Byrne - Only other off back I see is a Sov350 Forest Green
Cross - I only see the Tolstoi for off backs
Doyle (NY Hands Above Head)
Mowery - Only other off back is the Sov350 Forest Green
Rossman - There is only 1 copy, as far as I can tell

EPDG:

Lundgren Chicago - I believe EPDG was the only off back for this front
Jennings Portrait - Has a Sov350FG and Old Mill, the Old Mill is by far the lowest pop count

Sovereign 350 Forest Green:

Browne (Was) - The Old Mill has a much lower pop count
Crawford (Throwing) - Same as above
Dahlen (Brooklyn) - Same as above
O'Hara (NY) - I think this is O'Hara's only off back

At some point I will put together the 520 with the lowest pop counts for each individual card. I have the data, it will just take a while

[nineunder71]

Thanks James, that answers everything perfect. Your Sov Apple Greens ranked above the Tolstois is what through off my numbers from yours. I have all of those w Tolstoi, not Sov, like you said Relative scarcity over general scarcity.

Thanks again for the response and Keep up the Great Work!!

[53toppscollector]

Okay so I am curious and I will put together the 520 list based on scarcity of the back within the run, not just the overall scarcity. This will take a bit of time, so hold tight

[MR RAREBACK]

We can call it the ultimate t206 set

[53toppscollector]

Here is the answer:



update 1: fixed Schulte Front View

More details than you could ever want are here:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...47#post2255347

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by stutor

Great question. Several cards aren’t possible with only the backs listed in the original post. Cobb portrait green and Crawford throwing for instance. There are several of these. As HobokenJon said, the 150/350 OMs would most definitely be a requisite part of such a set.

Sonny, like you know anything about a complete 520 set of tough t206 combos

[Ronnie73]

This is why it's easier to just collect all 5000+ different combinations. Years ago, I made lists for 520 card sets with eliminating certain common backs. Back in 2011, there was only a couple of us that were working on a non Piedmont/Sweet Caporal set. It really wasn't that popular. I would say that around five years ago, it became more popular to build the set that way.

[stutor]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Sonny, like you know anything about a complete 520 set of tough t206 combos

Ha. I’ve been at it for a while. This project is a tough row to hoe. This thread really rings true with my collector focus. I don’t try for the ‘ultimate set’ necessarily, but I do try to find the juncture of the rarity curve and the aesthetic curve. If anyone is interested in what a hard back / mostly nice set can be, here is the link to what I have managed to build. If you have cards I need or better examples of what I have, I’m willing to trade or purchase for at or more than fair value.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/146321797@N05/Pu037e41t3

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by stutor

Ha. I’ve been at it for a while. This project is a tough row to hoe. This thread really rings true with my collector focus. I don’t try for the ‘ultimate set’ necessarily, but I do try to find the juncture of the rarity curve and the aesthetic curve. If anyone is interested in what a hard back / mostly nice set can be, here is the link to what I have managed to build. If you have cards I need or better examples of what I have, I’m willing to trade or purchase for at or more than fair value.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/146321797@N05/Pu037e41t3

Sonny, this is the most awesome t206 ever assembled IMO. It needs its own thread. For real.

[MVSNYC]

Sonny, your set is beyond epic; so inspiring. Thank you for sharing it. And most importantly, glad to call you a friend.

[Pat R]

Wow Sonny I knew you had a lot of incredible T206's but as Frank Barone would say "holy crap"!!

[MR RAREBACK]

Wow that set is awesome, I would like to have one similar

[stutor]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Wow Sonny I knew you had a lot of incredible T206's but as Frank Barone would say "holy crap"!!

That means a ton coming from you Patrick. One of my ‘monster’ cards is a seemingly mundane card with an impressive plate scratch. I included it because of your plate scratch research.

[53toppscollector]

Originally Posted by stutor

Ha. I’ve been at it for a while. This project is a tough row to hoe. This thread really rings true with my collector focus. I don’t try for the ‘ultimate set’ necessarily, but I do try to find the juncture of the rarity curve and the aesthetic curve. If anyone is interested in what a hard back / mostly nice set can be, here is the link to what I have managed to build. If you have cards I need or better examples of what I have, I’m willing to trade or purchase for at or more than fair value.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/146321797@N05/Pu037e41t3

Simply stunning. Your Broad Leaf collection is incredible.

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by stutor

Ha. I’ve been at it for a while. This project is a tough row to hoe. This thread really rings true with my collector focus. I don’t try for the ‘ultimate set’ necessarily, but I do try to find the juncture of the rarity curve and the aesthetic curve. If anyone is interested in what a hard back / mostly nice set can be, here is the link to what I have managed to build. If you have cards I need or better examples of what I have, I’m willing to trade or purchase for at or more than fair value.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/146321797@N05/Pu037e41t3

Beautiful mix of cards Sonny!! My favorite is your Hal Chase Pink Portrait Old Mill, and the Cross Tolstoi comes in at a close second favorite. It was nice to see a few Sweet Caporal No Prints within the set, along with a Yellow/Brown No Print Scrap. Between the errors, scraps, blank backs, and proofs, your collection covers just about everything that could come up in any T206 conversation. You've done an incredible job putting everything together. Your attempt at an epic set is a success.

[stutor]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

Beautiful mix of cards Sonny!! My favorite is your Hal Chase Pink Portrait Old Mill, and the Cross Tolstoi comes in at a close second favorite. It was nice to see a few Sweet Caporal No Prints within the set, along with a Yellow/Brown No Print Scrap. Between the errors, scraps, blank backs, and proofs, your collection covers just about everything that could come up in any T206 conversation. You've done an incredible job putting everything together. Your attempt at an epic set is a success.

Wow. Thank you. I consider you to be one of the most knowledgeable guys on the set. So your kind words are very much appreciated.

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

Beautiful mix of cards Sonny!! My favorite is your Hal Chase Pink Portrait Old Mill, and the Cross Tolstoi comes in at a close second favorite. It was nice to see a few Sweet Caporal No Prints within the set, along with a Yellow/Brown No Print Scrap. Between the errors, scraps, blank backs, and proofs, your collection covers just about everything that could come up in any T206 conversation. You've done an incredible job putting everything together. Your attempt at an epic set is a success.

Originally Posted by stutor

Wow. Thank you. I consider you to be one of the most knowledgeable guys on the set. So your kind words are very much appreciated.

Hi Sonny, I was searching my old posts for something and noticed your post. Thank you. I'm only knowledgeable on T206's because of this forum and it's members. So I have to say Thank You to Leon Luckey for everything he does to keep this website going and for not giving up when he had to switch from the old location and was able to keep all the old "Archive" posts and get them transfered to the new database. I also have to thank Ted Zanidakis and Scot Reader for the information they both shared. Plus so many others from the original group that shared their unknown or one of a kind cards.

Plus this thread needed a boost to the top.