The National - New Management

[BobC]

Interesting how in the article they mentioned the likelihood of the National coming back to Cleveland in 2024, but at the Huntington Convention Center, not at the IX Center where it has always been held at before. No one else seemed to catch or mention that.

The Huntington Convention Center is in downtown Cleveland, not anywhere near Hopkins Airport, and nowhere near as easy and accessible to get into and out of as the IX Center. The Huntington Convention Center is also much, much smaller than the IX Center, with an exhibition floor area of approximately only 225,000 SF, along with an adjoining ballroom space of about 32,000 SF. The IX Center building is over 2.2 million SF in total size, with around 1,000,000 SF for the exhibition floor. That is a huge difference. When the IX Center originally opened in 1985, it was then billed as the largest single building exhibition facility in the world at that time. The Huntington Convention Center has 1,200 parking spaces in an adjacent garage, but claims that upwards of another 5,000 parking spaces are withing walking distance. However, those additional other spaces are also used by Clevelanders going to work and visiting downtown for whatever other reasons. They may not be as accessible as some would like/think during the weekdays. And a lot of Cleveland parking garages are notorious for jacking up their parking fees during special events, like the National would be. Meanwhile, the IX Center has a 3,500 parking space surface lot with absolutely no competition for spaces. Everyone in that lot is going to the IX Center, period.

I can easily see the City of Cleveland behind a low-ball offer to the National organizers as an attempt to get the National downtown so they can more fully utilize the Huntington Convention Center, which was constructed in 2013. It has been under-utilized since it was finished, and if so, this is an obvious attempt to get the major hotels, restaurants and other downtown attractions a lot more activity and business as a result. The City of Cleveland had actually been trying to get rid of the IX Center in the past as they acquired the property in 2001, with the intention of knocking it down to extend the Hopkins Airport runways for more international flights with bigger jets. The lack of hotel/motel rooms and other amenities directly around the IX Center has always been the biggest knock against Cleveland as a site for the National, almost the exact polar opposite of how things are in Chicago. Of course, moving the National downtown to a much smaller, more congested downtown location will also likely mean much higher lodging costs, more traveling time to get around and back and forth to the airport, more traffic and other such issues, if they do end up using the Huntington Convention Center instead of the IX Center going forward.

If it does end up that the National comes back to Cleveland in this new downtown space, will be interesting to see how it is taken by those coming to it. Will likely end up costing people more for lodging, with more travel, parking and location hassles/costs, and maybe a lot more issues for dealers trying to get in and out of the facility, a lot more congestion and maybe fewer dealers or less dealer space, given the comments about focusing more on corporate businesses at the Nationals going forward. I don't think you can easily, if possibly at all, match the size and space available at the IX Center to put on the National. Would possibly put the question of what really is most important to attendees at the National right up front for everyone. Is it the large size and easy layout of the exhibition floor, along with easy access and parking at the facility and proximity to the airport and freeways, or is it having all the amenities that one wants available within walking distance of the National facility so you have lots to do after the National is over every day?

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by BobC

Interesting how in the article they mentioned the likelihood of the National coming back to Cleveland in 2024, but at the Huntington Convention Center, not at the IX Center where it has always been held at before. No one else seemed to catch or mention that.

The Huntington Convention Center is in downtown Cleveland, not anywhere near Hopkins Airport, and nowhere near as easy and accessible to get into and out of as the IX Center. The Huntington Convention Center is also much, much smaller than the IX Center, with an exhibition floor area of approximately only 225,000 SF, along with an adjoining ballroom space of about 32,000 SF. The IX Center building is over 2.2 million SF in total size, with around 1,000,000 SF for the exhibition floor. That is a huge difference. When the IX Center originally opened in 1985, it was then billed as the largest single building exhibition facility in the world at that time. The Huntington Convention Center has 1,200 parking spaces in an adjacent garage, but claims that upwards of another 5,000 parking spaces are withing walking distance. However, those additional other spaces are also used by Clevelanders going to work and visiting downtown for whatever other reasons. They may not be as accessible as some would like/think during the weekdays. And a lot of Cleveland parking garages are notorious for jacking up their parking fees during special events, like the National would be. Meanwhile, the IX Center has a 3,500 parking space surface lot with absolutely no competition for spaces. Everyone in that lot is going to the IX Center, period.

I can easily see the City of Cleveland behind a low-ball offer to the National organizers as an attempt to get the National downtown so they can more fully utilize the Huntington Convention Center, which was constructed in 2013. It has been under-utilized since it was finished, and if so, this is an obvious attempt to get the major hotels, restaurants and other downtown attractions a lot more activity and business as a result. The City of Cleveland had actually been trying to get rid of the IX Center in the past as they acquired the property in 2001, with the intention of knocking it down to extend the Hopkins Airport runways for more international flights with bigger jets. The lack of hotel/motel rooms and other amenities directly around the IX Center has always been the biggest knock against Cleveland as a site for the National, almost the exact polar opposite of how things are in Chicago. Of course, moving the National downtown to a much smaller, more congested downtown location will also likely mean much higher lodging costs, more traveling time to get around and back and forth to the airport, more traffic and other such issues, if they do end up using the Huntington Convention Center instead of the IX Center going forward.

If it does end up that the National comes back to Cleveland in this new downtown space, will be interesting to see how it is taken by those coming to it. Will likely end up costing people more for lodging, with more travel, parking and location hassles/costs, and maybe a lot more issues for dealers trying to get in and out of the facility, a lot more congestion and maybe fewer dealers or less dealer space, given the comments about focusing more on corporate businesses at the Nationals going forward. I don't think you can easily, if possibly at all, match the size and space available at the IX Center to put on the National. Would possibly put the question of what really is most important to attendees at the National right up front for everyone. Is it the large size and easy layout of the exhibition floor, along with easy access and parking at the facility and proximity to the airport and freeways, or is it having all the amenities that one wants available within walking distance of the National facility so you have lots to do after the National is over every day?

When I read the Huntington Convention Center part, I had the opposite reaction. I think the HCC would be an upgrade over the IX Center. More/better hotels, easier transportation, closer to different attractions (JACK Casino, Rock Hall, etc.), and an overall nicer facility. Parking will be interesting, but I'm hoping by 2024, there's an improved parking situation in that area of the city. With the Haslams (and the city as a whole) looking to build up that area of the city, I think there's a possibility for that to happen. Regarding the amount of space, the main room at the IX Center is 280k sq. ft. vs. 225k sq. ft. for the main room at the HCC. It's overall a nicer facility, and the difference in space is negligible when thinking about the "wasted" space at the IX Center.

Come back to Cleveland!

[T205 GB]

Saint Louis or Kansas City, MO would be great cities to have National at.

[isiahfan]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

When I read the Huntington Convention Center part, I had the opposite reaction. I think the HCC would be an upgrade over the IX Center. More/better hotels, easier transportation, closer to different attractions (JACK Casino, Rock Hall, etc.), and an overall nicer facility. Parking will be interesting, but I'm hoping by 2024, there's an improved parking situation in that area of the city. With the Haslams (and the city as a whole) looking to build up that area of the city, I think there's a possibility for that to happen. Regarding the amount of space, the main room at the IX Center is 280k sq. ft. vs. 225k sq. ft. for the main room at the HCC. It's overall a nicer facility, and the difference in space is negligible when thinking about the "wasted" space at the IX Center.

Come back to Cleveland!

I think there are a decent amount of open lets there...and with the "work from home" initiative hopefully it wouldn't be too bad...might have to wal from W6 or closer to one of the stadiums....but is negligible. Or...could even have a shuttle service rom the other side of the flats! Best of all it is ridiculously closer to my brewery..... Masthead!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

When I read the Huntington Convention Center part, I had the opposite reaction. I think the HCC would be an upgrade over the IX Center. More/better hotels, easier transportation, closer to different attractions (JACK Casino, Rock Hall, etc.), and an overall nicer facility. Parking will be interesting, but I'm hoping by 2024, there's an improved parking situation in that area of the city. With the Haslams (and the city as a whole) looking to build up that area of the city, I think there's a possibility for that to happen. Regarding the amount of space, the main room at the IX Center is 280k sq. ft. vs. 225k sq. ft. for the main room at the HCC. It's overall a nicer facility, and the difference in space is negligible when thinking about the "wasted" space at the IX Center.

Come back to Cleveland!

Hey Kyle,

Can definitely see many people liking it if it goes to downtown Cleveland. That is why I mentioned it will be interesting to see how people attending react if that change ends up happening and the National returns to Cleveland, but in a new location. But can also see it costing more for people to attend if it is downtown, and having more issues in traveling and getting through the downtown area and so on. Plus you're not right next to the airport anymore.

One big advantage Cleveland has it that it does not have the traffic congestion and issues of a city like say Chicago. And with the freeways and access to the IX Center, you can get around city area pretty easily if you rent a car. I actually prefer the IX Center facility to any of the other National facilities I've ever been to. You have dual entrances, one main floor with no obstructions, and more room than they know what to do with. Not sure where you got your figure for the IX Center's floor dimensions though. My understanding is that the main exhibition floor is actually about 985,000 SF, not the much smaller 280,000 SF number you mentioned. Where did you get that SF number from anyway? That is the other thing if you have the National in Cleveland. You actually would have plenty of space to expand the corporate areas, AND also be able to accommodate even more dealers if you really wanted to. If they ever took advantage of all the space the IX Center has for dealers, they would have to turn away so many of them in the following year when it went to a different venue that I'm guessing it would be a major issue for them and the dealers. The unused space at the IX Center isn't wasted, it was more likely just not used because the National people didn't want to deal with all the pissed off dealers who wouldn't be allowed to set up at other National locations then. And as for the facilities and how nice they are, I don't know about you, but I couldn't care less about the "ambiance" of the room and facilities. When I'm at the National, I'm there to look at cards and get around as easily as possible. Whether the facility is a big open space that looks like the unattractive inside of a factory/warehouse, or has carpeting and flowered wallpaper on the walls makes no difference to me. As long as it has AC and keeps the elements out, enough clean restrooms so lines aren't miles long, and enough places to sit to rest or grab a drink/snack when needed, that is all that really matters. I go to the National to go look at cards, not for a vacation . But I understand that for many people it is a sort of a vacation as well, and they like all the extra amenities they can get. But you usually end up paying for all those extra amenities in some shape or fashion as well. To each his own though,

And again, that is why I said it would be interesting to see how a National in a different Cleveland venue would be viewed by those that attend. There is no right or wrong answer, everyone has their own opinion and how they like things, and what they want to get out of going to the National. All good, just hope they do bring it back to Cleveland one day, whether the IX Center or the Huntington Convention Center.

Saw somewhere that Cleveland's location is a huge plus, where 43% of the entire US population is within 500 miles of it.

[Jewish-collector]

I love the National in Cleveland. Great concert venues like House of Blues, Blossom Music Center, etc,... See you in Cleveland beer chug.gif

[CrackaJackKid]

Hopefully cities like Dallas,St. Louis and or Kansas City will be considered in the future.

[isiahfan]

Originally Posted by BobC

Int
Would possibly put the question of what really is most important to attendees at the National right up front for everyone. Is it the large size and easy layout of the exhibition floor, along with easy access and parking at the facility and proximity to the airport and freeways, or is it having all the amenities that one wants available within walking distance of the National facility so you have lots to do after the National is over every day?

Hi Bob...agreed...but it is different to different people. As it relates to CLE specifically (and most like other cities) for people going for a day or two...I think access/size/price would be more important...i.e., IX Center...but for those that consider this a mini vaca...possibly their one free pass for the year from their wives.....I would guess they'd rather be able to catch a "Guardians" game...hit the R&R HOF, grab some dinner at Mallorca...then spend a lot of money imbibing at Masthead And possibly for those crazy kids...hitting the Flats/W6 and soaking up their drinks with a late night panini.

CHI has kind of a similar.....yet larger experience on both ends.... there....but I think the public transportation makes it more appealing for some to stay in the city there.

I don't think parking would be much of an issue because many would be at the hotels or taking the train in from the airport...and those that need to park...so many lots within 1/2 mile are never full mid-week and never on the weekends.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by isiahfan

Hi Bob...agreed...but it is different to different people. As it relates to CLE specifically (and most like other cities) for people going for a day or two...I think access/size/price would be more important...i.e., IX Center...but for those that consider this a mini vaca...possibly their one free pass for the year from their wives.....I would guess they'd rather be able to catch a "Guardians" game...hit the R&R HOF, grab some dinner at Mallorca...then spend a lot of money imbibing at Masthead And possibly for those crazy kids...hitting the Flats/W6 and soaking up their drinks with a late night panini.

CHI has kind of a similar.....yet larger experience on both ends.... there....but I think the public transportation makes it more appealing for some to stay in the city there.

I don't think parking would be much of an issue because many would be at the hotels or taking the train in from the airport...and those that need to park...so many lots within 1/2 mile are never full mid-week and never on the weekends.

Absolutely right. What many don't realize though is that everything is maybe not quite as close and all together around Cleveland's downtown as it is in Chicago in Rosemont around the convention center. Just hope it does come back to Cleveland someday, regardless of what the location is.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by BobC

Interesting how in the article they mentioned the likelihood of the National coming back to Cleveland in 2024, but at the Huntington Convention Center, not at the IX Center where it has always been held at before. No one else seemed to catch or mention that.

The Huntington Convention Center is in downtown Cleveland, not anywhere near Hopkins Airport, and nowhere near as easy and accessible to get into and out of as the IX Center. The Huntington Convention Center is also much, much smaller than the IX Center, with an exhibition floor area of approximately only 225,000 SF, along with an adjoining ballroom space of about 32,000 SF. The IX Center building is over 2.2 million SF in total size, with around 1,000,000 SF for the exhibition floor. That is a huge difference. When the IX Center originally opened in 1985, it was then billed as the largest single building exhibition facility in the world at that time. The Huntington Convention Center has 1,200 parking spaces in an adjacent garage, but claims that upwards of another 5,000 parking spaces are withing walking distance. However, those additional other spaces are also used by Clevelanders going to work and visiting downtown for whatever other reasons. They may not be as accessible as some would like/think during the weekdays. And a lot of Cleveland parking garages are notorious for jacking up their parking fees during special events, like the National would be. Meanwhile, the IX Center has a 3,500 parking space surface lot with absolutely no competition for spaces. Everyone in that lot is going to the IX Center, period.

I can easily see the City of Cleveland behind a low-ball offer to the National organizers as an attempt to get the National downtown so they can more fully utilize the Huntington Convention Center, which was constructed in 2013. It has been under-utilized since it was finished, and if so, this is an obvious attempt to get the major hotels, restaurants and other downtown attractions a lot more activity and business as a result. The City of Cleveland had actually been trying to get rid of the IX Center in the past as they acquired the property in 2001, with the intention of knocking it down to extend the Hopkins Airport runways for more international flights with bigger jets. The lack of hotel/motel rooms and other amenities directly around the IX Center has always been the biggest knock against Cleveland as a site for the National, almost the exact polar opposite of how things are in Chicago. Of course, moving the National downtown to a much smaller, more congested downtown location will also likely mean much higher lodging costs, more traveling time to get around and back and forth to the airport, more traffic and other such issues, if they do end up using the Huntington Convention Center instead of the IX Center going forward.

If it does end up that the National comes back to Cleveland in this new downtown space, will be interesting to see how it is taken by those coming to it. Will likely end up costing people more for lodging, with more travel, parking and location hassles/costs, and maybe a lot more issues for dealers trying to get in and out of the facility, a lot more congestion and maybe fewer dealers or less dealer space, given the comments about focusing more on corporate businesses at the Nationals going forward. I don't think you can easily, if possibly at all, match the size and space available at the IX Center to put on the National. Would possibly put the question of what really is most important to attendees at the National right up front for everyone. Is it the large size and easy layout of the exhibition floor, along with easy access and parking at the facility and proximity to the airport and freeways, or is it having all the amenities that one wants available within walking distance of the National facility so you have lots to do after the National is over every day?

No way it goes to a venue with 250,000 square feet of space. I guarantee that. I have done the National for 13 years and any venue less than 350,000 square feet will not be considered. They are looking for closer to 400,000 Square feet. If it goes to Cleveland, it will be at the IX center.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by rand1com

No way it goes to a venue with 250,000 square feet of space. I guarantee that. I have done the National for 13 years and any venue less than 350,000 square feet will not be considered. They are looking for closer to 400,000 Square feet. If it goes to Cleveland, it will be at the IX center.

That is what I was kind of thinking as well Randy, especially when the article talked about the importance of the corporate entities and their expanding presence at the Nationals. The Cleveland IX Center has room to spare compared to Chicago and Atlantic City, so much so that they could expand the corporate, auction house, breaker, and other special areas, and still have plenty of room for more dealers than they have now.

But the downtown area does have more hotel rooms and more restaurants and other amenities. But Cleveland also doesn't have the traffic and congestion of a city like Chicago. You can get a rental car or Uber and pretty much get wherever you need/want to go around the city pretty quickly and easily. And there is an awful lot to see if you want to take the time. But I think most people at the National are really there for the show and the cards/memorabilia most of all.

Plus, the airport is literally next door to the IX Center. You always hear some people have issues with Atlantic City because there is no major airport close by. That isn't an issue with the IX Center. And I know for a fact that proximity is a plus for guests and people coming to the IX Center. The very first National in Cleveland was held at the IX Center in 1997, and I was there getting some autographs. I asked Sandy Koufax while he was signing a ball for me how he liked coming to Cleveland. He stopped, looked up at me with a sort of faraway look, and after a second said he didn't know. He got off his plane, got picked up and brought right over to IX Center for his signing session, and as soon as he was done, they were taking him right back to the airport for a flight he already had booked to go back home the same day. I'm not sure they can do that for autograph guests at a lot of other places. Atlantic City, definitely not. Rosemont has O'Hare nearby, only about 3 miles away, but it is still a lot easier and quicker to get from Hopkins to the IX Center, than it is to get from O'Hare to the John E. Stephens Center. That isn't necessarily a big deal for most people attending the National, but it is one of those little things that the National organizers may pay attention to, and can have some influence on their decision.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by BobC

Plus, the airport is literally next door to the IX Center. You always hear some people have issues with Atlantic City because there is no major airport close by. That isn't an issue with the IX Center. And I know for a fact that proximity is a plus for guests and people coming to the IX Center. The very first National in Cleveland was held at the IX Center in 1997, and I was there getting some autographs. I asked Sandy Koufax while he was signing a ball for me how he liked coming to Cleveland. He stopped, looked up at me with a sort of faraway look, and after a second said he didn't know. He got off his plane, got picked up and brought right over to IX Center for his signing session, and as soon as he was done, they were taking him right back to the airport for a flight he already had booked to go back home the same day. I'm not sure they can do that for autograph guests at a lot of other places. Atlantic City, definitely not. Rosemont has O'Hare nearby, only about 3 miles away, but it is still a lot easier and quicker to get from Hopkins to the IX Center, than it is to get from O'Hare to the John E. Stephens Center. That isn't necessarily a big deal for most people attending the National, but it is one of those little things that the National organizers may pay attention to, and can have some influence on their decision.

I sat next to Eddie Murray on a flight back to LA from the National in 2019 and that is basically the story he told me. The promoters bring them in the day before signing, put them up for one night, then fly them home the next day. They report for duty early in the day to sign mail order and the promoters stuff. It is part reunion with former teammates and fellow HOFers but mostly it is wading through several large stacks of mail order items and stock photos. Then they go onstage at the pavilion and sign their live signings, then they can leave. He opts to go home immediately. I told him about the NSCC from the collector's side: show, dinner party, bar, bed, repeat. I then started running material and jokes about collectors for him. He cracks up and tells me that I should be a comedian. When I tell him I do stand-up on the side, he says that when he first saw me he thought I was Brian Posehn but when I said I was a lawyer he thought I might take it the wrong way, so he didn't mention it. He then was asking me about where I'm from, what I do, etc. I even invited him to the Burbank Comedy Festival where I was going to be performing. At the end he offered me a handshake.

[Leon]

cool story

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I sat next to Eddie Murray on a flight back to LA from the National in 2019 and that is basically the story he told me. The promoters bring them in the day before signing, put them up for one night, then fly them home the next day. They report for duty early in the day to sign mail order and the promoters stuff. It is part reunion with former teammates and fellow HOFers but mostly it is wading through several large stacks of mail order items and stock photos. Then they go onstage at the pavilion and sign their live signings, then they can leave. He opts to go home immediately. I told him about the NSCC from the collector's side: show, dinner party, bar, bed, repeat. I then started running material and jokes about collectors for him. He cracks up and tells me that I should be a comedian. When I tell him I do stand-up on the side, he says that when he first saw me he thought I was Brian Posehn but when I said I was a lawyer he thought I might take it the wrong way, so he didn't mention it. He then was asking me about where I'm from, what I do, etc. I even invited him to the Burbank Comedy Festival where I was going to be performing. At the end he offered me a handshake.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I sat next to Eddie Murray on a flight back to LA from the National in 2019 and that is basically the story he told me. The promoters bring them in the day before signing, put them up for one night, then fly them home the next day. They report for duty early in the day to sign mail order and the promoters stuff. It is part reunion with former teammates and fellow HOFers but mostly it is wading through several large stacks of mail order items and stock photos. Then they go onstage at the pavilion and sign their live signings, then they can leave. He opts to go home immediately. I told him about the NSCC from the collector's side: show, dinner party, bar, bed, repeat. I then started running material and jokes about collectors for him. He cracks up and tells me that I should be a comedian. When I tell him I do stand-up on the side, he says that when he first saw me he thought I was Brian Posehn but when I said I was a lawyer he thought I might take it the wrong way, so he didn't mention it. He then was asking me about where I'm from, what I do, etc. I even invited him to the Burbank Comedy Festival where I was going to be performing. At the end he offered me a handshake.

Eddie is very cool. I bumped into him outside Chantilly one time and had to share the fact that he is the answer to my favorite trivia question as he is the only player in baseball history to lead the entire Majors in batting and yet not win his league batting title.

Willie McGee was hitting .335 in 1990 when he was traded to Oakland where he hit .272 the rest of the year for a total of .324. Eddie batted .331. However McGee had enough at bats in the NL to qualify for the batting crown beating Eddie by 4 points. The AL leader that year was George Brett at.329. So Eddie led the Majors in hitting at .331 with no batting title to show for it.

He listened to the whole thing (which I can't believe he didn't already know) and smiled and said "I bet you win a lot of bar bets with that"