The National - New Management
 

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/....-team-schedule

Interesting that JP Sports and CSA combine forces. I wonder if Tri-Star will remain in the picture.

Good read. Lots of info. Thanks!

Thank goodness. Hopefully they completely do away with the committee....
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Can we get Dallas along with Chicago and Cleveland now? Maybe an occasional Las Vegas.

With all of the new management involved in East Coast shows, I think the possibility of a future West Coast National just dropped to "zip."

(was going to say 1 in a million, but then someone would have had to say "so, you're saying there's a chance?" :) )

Could be good as they stated they would be looking at new locations but I also threw up in my mouth a little when the new President of the NSCC said in the article…

“I’m here to represent the dealers and what’s best for the dealers. But at the same time, we need to embrace corporate, because the world’s changing, it’s booming. There’s NFTs, there’s apps, there’s all types of things. But I think the thing we need to do is embrace corporate.”

Not sure if this means dealer space will be lowered for more corporate stuff which I really hope wouldn’t be the case

That's exactly what's happening I believe.

Maybe they'll want to go someplace different once in a while. Someone in Juneau doesn't want to holiday in Anchorage every year.

That would really suck.
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Great news, some new blood and ideas will be good.

They do if they have to haul their card cases/inventory via sled-dogs. Can't "mush" your way to Seattle.

I heard that next year has so much corporate space that the dealers are basically being pushed out of the main room and into the antechamber. In some ways that is great: it always was a PITA to have to cross the corporate desert to get to the card tables.

Face it, folks: we vintage-oriented collectors are not the market movers. Postwar and modern is king.

What about the embracing the collectors?


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+1 Agree but it is an interesting read

I realize two trips is probably a lot for many dealers, and if they ain’t at both, then it would mean two trips for collectors to see it all, but why isn’t there two nationals: this nation is too big for only one, especially with interest up. Is there money in running a convention? It seems like someone could do this. Especially if it was in Las Vegas. It probably wouldn’t be too difficult to overtake the current National as the primary one that everyone went to. Free idea.

Apparently jprs also bought out Uncle Dicks, as I saw some hybrid table this year

The corporate booths waste so much space. I visited the auction houses but skipped over everything else. Would love a Modern and Vintage National so collectors and dealers could choose what’s worthwhile for them.
Even so I greatly enjoyed this year’s National, lots of prewar and vintage. Great conversations with dealers. The busiest tables were absolutely the modern junk so that tells you where the hobby is going.

Someone really needs to start up a new collector-friendly “National”. Competition is a very good thing… especially considering where this hobby (I mean business) is headed.

yes...segregation is the answer!!!!! put all the vintage together!!!!

At least in my business the corporate/large sponsors help subsidize the cost of the convention. I suspect it will not get any smaller.

I don't understand what these leaders don't get about THE NATIONAL SPORTS COLLECTORS CONVENTION. There's nothing in that which says the dealers convention. Collector's is the key word. Possibly someday the leaders can get their brain to understand that. I doubt it though.

I spoke with a dealer last week who was set up for the second time (AC and Chicago 2021). Apparently, he was told that he couldn’t get a booth next year and would be on the waiting list because the corporate area was being expanded. Needless to say, he wasn’t happy…

The National seems to be transitioning to mostly modern cards, trade nights, breaks, etc,... so why not create separate Nationals in different locations for vintage, for modern, trade nights, etc,... The Dallas show has about 600 tables, so why not make that a modern National, since I've heard it is almost entirely modern cards.

There used to be a vintage only show up in New York state in the 1990's (?), where the promoter said nothing on dealer tables after 1976 or something like that. And, there used to be a "sports equipment" show in the 1990's in the Baltimore & Washington, DC areas (signs, bats, gloves, uniforms, pennants, etc,...) organized by Washington Senators collector & broadcaster Phil Wood.

Everyone has a different perspective on where the National should be and with a new promoter, it will be interesting to see where they have it in 2024 and 2025.

The corporate booths were the one area you could actually easily walk around this year. The dealers were swamped. So who are the collectors coming to see?

If Joe can do for the National what he has done for Philly it should be a good thing, but the corporate statement is a little scary.

I didn't get a booth next year which is obviously massively disappointing after having a booth this year.

If I were making decisions about where to host the National, I would just do 2 shows per year. An east coast and a west coast show. Obviously, the east coast show would be the bigger one, but why not host 2 shows per year? Surely, enough dealers would come to a west coast winter national to make having one worthwhile. Vegas? LA? Maybe in January while the NFL Playoffs are on and the NBA season is in full swing? I know I'd go.

Unfortunately we all know it’s a business decision the number one priority is money. It’s the way of the world.

They are going to end up with a corporate extravaganza that nobody wants to pay the fee to see.

It seems like they are trying to be more like Comic-Con but that setup and experience will not work with this hobby. As someone that goes to Comic-Con and shows like that with my wife they are an “experience” that you are paying to have. People dress up and just enjoy talking to people that have similar interests as them. There are celebrity panels, art demonstrations, cosplay contests and and tons of small get togethers by people with a niche focus that look forward to those experiences all year. None of those kind of things are what people go to the NSCC to do. What would be gained by the person paying hundreds of $$ to get in by having a corporate area 3x the size? The least busy area at all these types of shows are the auction house booths. They can have $5 million dollars worth of stuff in a case and there will 5 to 10 people an hour (maybe) that stop and look at their 30x30 booth because they can see the same cards easily online.

At all those “Comic” type of shows that I have been to the “dealer” portion was largely an afterthought. The NSCC has always been about people looking to add to their collections, buying/selling, flipping, admiring collections and things of that nature. I just don’t understand what the people attending in the future would be getting if they do indeed “ go corporate”

Well said Rhett,
Maybe pre war collectors can get back to trading in back alleys, smoke filled barrooms, and empty warehouses in Cleveland like it should be.

“I’m here to represent the dealers and what’s best for the dealers. But at the same time, we need to embrace corporate, because the world’s changing, it’s booming. There’s NFTs, there’s apps, there’s all types of things. But I think the thing we need to do is embrace corporate.”

Well, nobody has mentioned the "F" word in the room... Maybe Fanatics will have a larger exposure???

Or maybe Anaheim....LA or San Diego ?

San Diego or Vegas.

Interesting how in the article they mentioned the likelihood of the National coming back to Cleveland in 2024, but at the Huntington Convention Center, not at the IX Center where it has always been held at before. No one else seemed to catch or mention that.

The Huntington Convention Center is in downtown Cleveland, not anywhere near Hopkins Airport, and nowhere near as easy and accessible to get into and out of as the IX Center. The Huntington Convention Center is also much, much smaller than the IX Center, with an exhibition floor area of approximately only 225,000 SF, along with an adjoining ballroom space of about 32,000 SF. The IX Center building is over 2.2 million SF in total size, with around 1,000,000 SF for the exhibition floor. That is a huge difference. When the IX Center originally opened in 1985, it was then billed as the largest single building exhibition facility in the world at that time. The Huntington Convention Center has 1,200 parking spaces in an adjacent garage, but claims that upwards of another 5,000 parking spaces are withing walking distance. However, those additional other spaces are also used by Clevelanders going to work and visiting downtown for whatever other reasons. They may not be as accessible as some would like/think during the weekdays. And a lot of Cleveland parking garages are notorious for jacking up their parking fees during special events, like the National would be. Meanwhile, the IX Center has a 3,500 parking space surface lot with absolutely no competition for spaces. Everyone in that lot is going to the IX Center, period.

I can easily see the City of Cleveland behind a low-ball offer to the National organizers as an attempt to get the National downtown so they can more fully utilize the Huntington Convention Center, which was constructed in 2013. It has been under-utilized since it was finished, and if so, this is an obvious attempt to get the major hotels, restaurants and other downtown attractions a lot more activity and business as a result. The City of Cleveland had actually been trying to get rid of the IX Center in the past as they acquired the property in 2001, with the intention of knocking it down to extend the Hopkins Airport runways for more international flights with bigger jets. The lack of hotel/motel rooms and other amenities directly around the IX Center has always been the biggest knock against Cleveland as a site for the National, almost the exact polar opposite of how things are in Chicago. Of course, moving the National downtown to a much smaller, more congested downtown location will also likely mean much higher lodging costs, more traveling time to get around and back and forth to the airport, more traffic and other such issues, if they do end up using the Huntington Convention Center instead of the IX Center going forward.

If it does end up that the National comes back to Cleveland in this new downtown space, will be interesting to see how it is taken by those coming to it. Will likely end up costing people more for lodging, with more travel, parking and location hassles/costs, and maybe a lot more issues for dealers trying to get in and out of the facility, a lot more congestion and maybe fewer dealers or less dealer space, given the comments about focusing more on corporate businesses at the Nationals going forward. I don't think you can easily, if possibly at all, match the size and space available at the IX Center to put on the National. Would possibly put the question of what really is most important to attendees at the National right up front for everyone. Is it the large size and easy layout of the exhibition floor, along with easy access and parking at the facility and proximity to the airport and freeways, or is it having all the amenities that one wants available within walking distance of the National facility so you have lots to do after the National is over every day?

You beat me to it. I was going to post "Welcome to the National Sports Collectors Convention presented by Fanatics". It wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Not that these guys don't have tons of years in the hobby and connections/thoughts of their own...but are any of the new regime members here?

If I am not mistaken...Dallas, Philly, Chi, SF, and a few others have 1-2 pretty large shows a year already. If they are unwilling to do one every fourth year on the West Coast (CHI/CLE-AC-PHL-NSH/CHI/West Coast) Maybe like others have said ....try to at least host something every other year. Obviously this has been said for years...and if there was a decent amount of $$$$ to be made it probably would have been done by now?...so even if it wasn't a regular occurrence I feel one every now and then would be a massive hit. It wasn't like the last Anaheim NSCC in '06 was dead...it was packed.

I agree on the corporate thing too...would love to see them off to the side...it messes up my walking patterns lol...but truth is they bring too much $$$$$$ to not get what they want. I just can't even say that when I was 5-6-7 years old collecting that the corporate type set ups would have been interesting at all to me.

The more dealer tables the better. Collectors come to purchase cards not look at Auction Houses items which can only be purchased online. Grading companies should be in a different room. What ever happened to the great shows that use to be the best in the hobby ( in the Detroit area ) ? Never hear about this option anymore.

2023 National
 

According to the 2023 Floor Plan we picked up at the dealer booth selection lottery they are using the entire first floor and I believe is a horseshoe where all rooms can be accessed without going into the lobby to go to the exhibit hall not used in past Chicago National shows.

There will be 592 10X15 dealer booths, just eight booths short of Atlantic City but (I believe) more than past Chicago shows. In addition there will be 40 10X0 booths making a total of 632 dealer booths.

Does anyone have a 2021 National floor plan handy to see how many booths were available. There should be more in 2023.

There will be much more corporate areas and the autograph area is moved.

The fear of more corporate area and less dealer booths is unfounded according to the new floor plan.

Back in the day (1988-1991) when I was living in California, Bob Lee and Randy Thyberg put on some great shows in the LA and San Francisco areas. They didn't need to call it a "National" although I think Bob might've hosted one or two of those too. Why can't somebody put on some major shows around the country that have nothing to do with The National?

Generally, I think what is dealer-friendly is also collector and fan-friendly. More dealers = more stuff. I've never seen the point of the corporate setups (besides the money it probably generates for the promoter.) To me, the corporate sponsor stuff is a lot like having to suffer through commercials while watching a great show on TV.

Some prominent people in this hobby could make a bunch of money and help all of us by teaming up and offering major shows a few times a year. Maybe three types: vintage centric, memorabilia and uniform centric, modern centric, in Atlanta, Minneapolis, and Los Angeles one year, then Cleveland, Dallas, and San Francisco the next, etc.

National
 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was told that there will never be another National on the west coast because most of the dealers are mid west and east coast. They would complain about the travel and the lack of vintage material that was brought to sell to the dealers.

Are your referring to the Jim Hawkins shows? I don't really remember much else that I would consider great (and large)...though there are some execellent local shows there still to this day. Jim and Mark seemed to just almost disappear from the hobby after they closed Fanatics...think they ran a couple shows after that, but Jim went back to writing (Oakland Press) and no idea what happened to Mark.

Pardon my language, but who would you have to blow to not be stuck in this section?

Attachment 527760

I fixed that for you

Jprs already has what they bill as the "east coast national" though it pales in comparison

When I read the Huntington Convention Center part, I had the opposite reaction. I think the HCC would be an upgrade over the IX Center. More/better hotels, easier transportation, closer to different attractions (JACK Casino, Rock Hall, etc.), and an overall nicer facility. Parking will be interesting, but I'm hoping by 2024, there's an improved parking situation in that area of the city. With the Haslams (and the city as a whole) looking to build up that area of the city, I think there's a possibility for that to happen. Regarding the amount of space, the main room at the IX Center is 280k sq. ft. vs. 225k sq. ft. for the main room at the HCC. It's overall a nicer facility, and the difference in space is negligible when thinking about the "wasted" space at the IX Center.

Come back to Cleveland!

Saint Louis or Kansas City, MO would be great cities to have National at.

Jim bought DeCourcey’s business in 2019 but Dick still sets at shows in Florida,etc and with Jim at other shows when he desires.

https://www.uncledickscards.com/announcement

But if there are more dealer tables then why are dealers and auctioneers, whom have already set up and still want to, being denied?

I know of at least two dealers who historically picked one booth who now pick two booths now and I assume they have someone else setup with them. A couple of years ago the NSCC committee disallowed dealers from picking more than two booths unless they already had a history of such to prevent dealers to start picking four booths and dispersing booths in that manner.

I assume most people who setup at the National for the first time in AC were selected after added booths were added to the original AC floor plan and contacted after the lottery held in Chicago last year.

I believe a lot of dealers like Scott Russell will end up setting up in Chicago when the show gets closer. This year I know five or so booths were made available last minute as Steve Werley passed and a Canadian had trouble crossing the border and another was sick. Plus I am sure some dealers passed on AC as you can skip one National every five years without penalty. I can think of one dealer off hand in that situation.

Another possibility is people with a 5 or better priority who hasn’t setup in recent shows started picking again for someone else to use.

Bottom line I believe there are more booths in 2023 than 2021 in Chicago. I don’t have the interest to spend the time to analyze the dealers lists to figure it out. If someone has a 2021 floor plan it may note the number of dealer booths or some one could count them if they wish.

The Chicago show footprint is larger than ever using the entire first floor exhibit space with 632 dealer booths and much more corporate booths.

From what I can tell you are pretty spot on. There are indeed more dealer booths 2023 than 2021, (though whether or not you care for the location is a different issue) but many dealers who do Chicago used their skip on AC creating extra table availability for AC. I was the third to last picked in last year's lottery. I am 18th on the waiting list for 2023 so I don't hold out a lot of hope. My disappointment isn't because I think anyone did anything wrong (there were even a couple priority "2" guys who didn't get in, so I can't bitch too much) just that it stinks to go backwards in terms of my company. I'm literally wondering if I'll have to do Atlantic City 3x before I have a high enough priority number to get into one of the other venues, not to mention having to make sure I'm at the lottery each year even if I'm not at the show.

It was 1990 or 91 that Gloria Rothstein put on the first East Coast National at the White plains convention center. It has I believe been held every year since. The managment team that has the new National contract has been running the White plains show for a number if years now.
As for corporate booths I can say the contrast between the 2016 AC National and the 2022 National was stark. A much larger chunk of the floor was used for Corporate spots. There was a large group of folks touting software pagages for tracking card prices. So now a collector has at least 10 different ways to track on a sale by sale basis the most current data on their collection. I saw very little interest in these booths. But I do know that one or two of them seem to have some traction. But I definitely see these booths shrinking in the next few years.
Another group that grew was TPG's. PSA was far and away the busiest. But I had a small order graded by CSG / CCG and I was happy with the service and thought their grades were tough but consistent. PSA shutting down orders created space for these new players and it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
As for cards I think 2022 had more high end cards for sale than 2016 accross the board. Great early cards ( Anyone who visited SB1's table will agree) T206's 30's cards were a little light but Ruth's Gehrigs Dimaggio Williams etc. Were available. Alot of 50's through 70's esp the major rookie cards and alot of Mantles, Alot.
Overall 2022 was a better show than 2016 but the prices were significantly higher accross the board.
So hobby looked healthy esp if the young folks stick around past college. And I saw Thousands of collectors enjoying themselves.
New blood in managment I am sure will try and put best foot forward next couple of years so should be fun..
J

Here are three revolutionary ideas:

1. Just put the f'ing show in Rosemont permanently and forget the rest. Comicon is in San Diego every time and no one seems to be the worse for it.

2. License and run regional shows. Comicon does that in several major cities throughout the year.

3. Stick all the corporate booths, breakers and autographs on one side of the hall and all the dealers on the other. I do not really care for a set up that has three different dead zones and dealer tables crammed into every corner of the joint.