The National - New Management

[perezfan]

San Diego or Vegas.

[isiahfan]

Not that these guys don't have tons of years in the hobby and connections/thoughts of their own...but are any of the new regime members here?

If I am not mistaken...Dallas, Philly, Chi, SF, and a few others have 1-2 pretty large shows a year already. If they are unwilling to do one every fourth year on the West Coast (CHI/CLE-AC-PHL-NSH/CHI/West Coast) Maybe like others have said ....try to at least host something every other year. Obviously this has been said for years...and if there was a decent amount of $$$$ to be made it probably would have been done by now?...so even if it wasn't a regular occurrence I feel one every now and then would be a massive hit. It wasn't like the last Anaheim NSCC in '06 was dead...it was packed.

I agree on the corporate thing too...would love to see them off to the side...it messes up my walking patterns lol...but truth is they bring too much $$$$$$ to not get what they want. I just can't even say that when I was 5-6-7 years old collecting that the corporate type set ups would have been interesting at all to me.

[insidethewrapper]

The more dealer tables the better. Collectors come to purchase cards not look at Auction Houses items which can only be purchased online. Grading companies should be in a different room. What ever happened to the great shows that use to be the best in the hobby ( in the Detroit area ) ? Never hear about this option anymore.

[ncinin]

According to the 2023 Floor Plan we picked up at the dealer booth selection lottery they are using the entire first floor and I believe is a horseshoe where all rooms can be accessed without going into the lobby to go to the exhibit hall not used in past Chicago National shows.

There will be 592 10X15 dealer booths, just eight booths short of Atlantic City but (I believe) more than past Chicago shows. In addition there will be 40 10X0 booths making a total of 632 dealer booths.

Does anyone have a 2021 National floor plan handy to see how many booths were available. There should be more in 2023.

There will be much more corporate areas and the autograph area is moved.

The fear of more corporate area and less dealer booths is unfounded according to the new floor plan.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ncinin

According to the 2023 Floor Plan we picked up at the dealer booth selection lottery they are using the entire first floor and I believe is a horseshoe where all rooms can be accessed without going into the lobby to go to the exhibit hall not used in past Chicago National shows.

There will be 592 10X15 dealer booths, just eight booths short of Atlantic City but (I believe) more than past Chicago shows. In addition there will be 40 10X0 booths making a total of 632 dealer booths.

Does anyone have a 2021 National floor plan handy to see how many booths were available. There should be more in 2023.

There will be much more corporate areas and the autograph area is moved.

The fear of more corporate area and less dealer booths is unfounded according to the new floor plan.

But if there are more dealer tables then why are dealers and auctioneers, whom have already set up and still want to, being denied?

[ncinin]

Originally Posted by Leon

But if there are more dealer tables then why are dealers and auctioneers, whom have already set up and still want to, being denied?

I know of at least two dealers who historically picked one booth who now pick two booths now and I assume they have someone else setup with them. A couple of years ago the NSCC committee disallowed dealers from picking more than two booths unless they already had a history of such to prevent dealers to start picking four booths and dispersing booths in that manner.

I assume most people who setup at the National for the first time in AC were selected after added booths were added to the original AC floor plan and contacted after the lottery held in Chicago last year.

I believe a lot of dealers like Scott Russell will end up setting up in Chicago when the show gets closer. This year I know five or so booths were made available last minute as Steve Werley passed and a Canadian had trouble crossing the border and another was sick. Plus I am sure some dealers passed on AC as you can skip one National every five years without penalty. I can think of one dealer off hand in that situation.

Another possibility is people with a 5 or better priority who hasn’t setup in recent shows started picking again for someone else to use.

Bottom line I believe there are more booths in 2023 than 2021 in Chicago. I don’t have the interest to spend the time to analyze the dealers lists to figure it out. If someone has a 2021 floor plan it may note the number of dealer booths or some one could count them if they wish.

The Chicago show footprint is larger than ever using the entire first floor exhibit space with 632 dealer booths and much more corporate booths.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by ncinin

I know of at least two dealers who historically picked one booth who now pick two booths now and I assume they have someone else setup with them. A couple of years ago the NSCC committee disallowed dealers from picking more than two booths unless they already had a history of such to prevent dealers to start picking four booths and dispersing booths in that manner.

I assume most people who setup at the National for the first time in AC were selected after added booths were added to the original AC floor plan and contacted after the lottery held in Chicago last year.

I believe a lot of dealers like Scott Russell will end up setting up in Chicago when the show gets closer. This year I know five or so booths were made available last minute as Steve Werley passed and a Canadian had trouble crossing the border and another was sick. Plus I am sure some dealers passed on AC as you can skip one National every five years without penalty. I can think of one dealer off hand in that situation.

Another possibility is people with a 5 or better priority who hasn’t setup in recent shows started picking again for someone else to use.

Bottom line I believe there are more booths in 2023 than 2021 in Chicago. I don’t have the interest to spend the time to analyze the dealers lists to figure it out. If someone has a 2021 floor plan it may note the number of dealer booths or some one could count them if they wish.

The Chicago show footprint is larger than ever using the entire first floor exhibit space with 632 dealer booths and much more corporate booths.

From what I can tell you are pretty spot on. There are indeed more dealer booths 2023 than 2021, (though whether or not you care for the location is a different issue) but many dealers who do Chicago used their skip on AC creating extra table availability for AC. I was the third to last picked in last year's lottery. I am 18th on the waiting list for 2023 so I don't hold out a lot of hope. My disappointment isn't because I think anyone did anything wrong (there were even a couple priority "2" guys who didn't get in, so I can't bitch too much) just that it stinks to go backwards in terms of my company. I'm literally wondering if I'll have to do Atlantic City 3x before I have a high enough priority number to get into one of the other venues, not to mention having to make sure I'm at the lottery each year even if I'm not at the show.

[bigfanNY]

It was 1990 or 91 that Gloria Rothstein put on the first East Coast National at the White plains convention center. It has I believe been held every year since. The managment team that has the new National contract has been running the White plains show for a number if years now.
As for corporate booths I can say the contrast between the 2016 AC National and the 2022 National was stark. A much larger chunk of the floor was used for Corporate spots. There was a large group of folks touting software pagages for tracking card prices. So now a collector has at least 10 different ways to track on a sale by sale basis the most current data on their collection. I saw very little interest in these booths. But I do know that one or two of them seem to have some traction. But I definitely see these booths shrinking in the next few years.
Another group that grew was TPG's. PSA was far and away the busiest. But I had a small order graded by CSG / CCG and I was happy with the service and thought their grades were tough but consistent. PSA shutting down orders created space for these new players and it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
As for cards I think 2022 had more high end cards for sale than 2016 accross the board. Great early cards ( Anyone who visited SB1's table will agree) T206's 30's cards were a little light but Ruth's Gehrigs Dimaggio Williams etc. Were available. Alot of 50's through 70's esp the major rookie cards and alot of Mantles, Alot.
Overall 2022 was a better show than 2016 but the prices were significantly higher accross the board.
So hobby looked healthy esp if the young folks stick around past college. And I saw Thousands of collectors enjoying themselves.
New blood in managment I am sure will try and put best foot forward next couple of years so should be fun..
J

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by ncinin

I know of at least two dealers who historically picked one booth who now pick two booths now and I assume they have someone else setup with them. A couple of years ago the NSCC committee disallowed dealers from picking more than two booths unless they already had a history of such to prevent dealers to start picking four booths and dispersing booths in that manner.

I assume most people who setup at the National for the first time in AC were selected after added booths were added to the original AC floor plan and contacted after the lottery held in Chicago last year.

I believe a lot of dealers like Scott Russell will end up setting up in Chicago when the show gets closer. This year I know five or so booths were made available last minute as Steve Werley passed and a Canadian had trouble crossing the border and another was sick. Plus I am sure some dealers passed on AC as you can skip one National every five years without penalty. I can think of one dealer off hand in that situation.

Another possibility is people with a 5 or better priority who hasn’t setup in recent shows started picking again for someone else to use.

Bottom line I believe there are more booths in 2023 than 2021 in Chicago. I don’t have the interest to spend the time to analyze the dealers lists to figure it out. If someone has a 2021 floor plan it may note the number of dealer booths or some one could count them if they wish.

The Chicago show footprint is larger than ever using the entire first floor exhibit space with 632 dealer booths and much more corporate booths.

This is how it works. If you have historically gotten one booth and you have a high priority, you can pick two booths any year or every year. That is likely what is happening. I have a 13 priority and have gotten two tables for a number of years but should have gone for 4 back when you get get up to 4. As stated, they did away with that option a few years ago to prevent all of the tables being gobbled up by dealers who were supplying new dealers with tables. The lottery on Saturday was a zoo. There were hundreds of dealers lining up to hopefully get a booth. I think most were disappointed.

[Mark17]

Back in the day (1988-1991) when I was living in California, Bob Lee and Randy Thyberg put on some great shows in the LA and San Francisco areas. They didn't need to call it a "National" although I think Bob might've hosted one or two of those too. Why can't somebody put on some major shows around the country that have nothing to do with The National?

Generally, I think what is dealer-friendly is also collector and fan-friendly. More dealers = more stuff. I've never seen the point of the corporate setups (besides the money it probably generates for the promoter.) To me, the corporate sponsor stuff is a lot like having to suffer through commercials while watching a great show on TV.

Some prominent people in this hobby could make a bunch of money and help all of us by teaming up and offering major shows a few times a year. Maybe three types: vintage centric, memorabilia and uniform centric, modern centric, in Atlanta, Minneapolis, and Los Angeles one year, then Cleveland, Dallas, and San Francisco the next, etc.

[661fish]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was told that there will never be another National on the west coast because most of the dealers are mid west and east coast. They would complain about the travel and the lack of vintage material that was brought to sell to the dealers.

[Michael B]

Pardon my language, but who would you have to blow to not be stuck in this section?

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[isiahfan]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

The more dealer tables the better. Collectors come to purchase cards not look at Auction Houses items which can only be purchased online. Grading companies should be in a different room. What ever happened to the great shows that use to be the best in the hobby ( in the Detroit area ) ? Never hear about this option anymore.

Are your referring to the Jim Hawkins shows? I don't really remember much else that I would consider great (and large)...though there are some execellent local shows there still to this day. Jim and Mark seemed to just almost disappear from the hobby after they closed Fanatics...think they ran a couple shows after that, but Jim went back to writing (Oakland Press) and no idea what happened to Mark.