auto racing cards

[Bored5000]

Peter, when I saw you had a new post in this thread, I thought it was going to be about picking up the 1965 Lampo Jim Clark that ended last night. LOL. I have bought from that seller before, and he does have some neat oddball racing cards, since he is based in Italy. The final price of $1,027 was very strong. I remember a Lampo Clark from the same seller a few months ago that ended in the $400 range.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175358716539

With regard to speculating on prices down the road, I think Max Verstappen is worth loading up on. I know there is a huge danger in buying cards of current athletes, but he is already eighth in career F1 wins at age 24. With the season seemingly going to stay at 21-22 races for the foreseeable future, he has so many more chances to win races than drivers from even one generation ago.

IMO, Hamilton's seven titles and 103 wins are already fully priced into his cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Peter, when I saw you had a new post in this thread, I thought it was going to be about picking up the 1965 Lampo Jim Clark that ended last night. LOL. I have bought from that seller before, and he does have some neat oddball racing cards, since he is based in Italy. The final price of $1,027 was very strong. I remember a Lampo Clark from the same seller a few months ago that ended in the $400 range.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175358716539

With regard to speculating on prices down the road, I think Max Verstappen is worth loading up on. I know there is a huge danger in buying cards of current athletes, but he is already eighth in career F1 wins at age 24. With the season seemingly going to stay at 21-22 races for the foreseeable future, he has so many more chances to win races than drivers from even one generation ago.

IMO, Hamilton's seven titles and 103 wins are already fully priced into his cards.

I missed that one. Not sure I would have gone that high but yeah, quite a card. What do you like for Verstappen? Anything earlier than 2020?

[Bored5000]

I think the card to have for Verstappen is far and away the 2020 Topps Chrome Card No. 6, either the standard portrait or the short-printed image variation. Cards 1-20 of the 20 drivers from the 2020 Chrome set have already become iconic. The Verstappen stuff from before 2020 are game cards, which I don't think will ever be too in demand.

Don't worry about the other million or so Verstappen cards Topps has produced since 2020. Card No. 6 is the one you want. Of course, there are all kinds of parallels with different print runs. But even the basic refractor from 2020 Chrome has a print run of about 1,100, which isn't outrageous for a worldwide sport.

If you are looking to prospect on F1, another guy to keep in mind is Oscar Piastri. His cards aren't dirt cheap, but he is probably the biggest coming star. He was F3 champion and F2 champion in back to back years. It is crazy that he was merely a reserve driver this year with that resume, but he will almost certainly be in F1 next year (probably with Alpine).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Thanks I'll probably grab a base card of Max just for the hell of it.

[D. Bergin]

Not sure why the 2016 Top Trumps Verstappen doesn't rate. I'm obviously a fan of the game cards, but F1 cards didn't magically appear on the scene when Topps decided to start printing them.

I guess I'd compare them to all the STAR cards that came out in Basketball before the 1986 Fleers, except there's no counterfeit for reprint issues to worry about.

Not saying it because I have a stack of them either. I've got exactly one from a set I picked up awhile back, and the Verstappen ended up being the worst conditioned card in the deck.

Still haven't picked up a 2009 Hamilton Top Trumps either, though I do like that card also.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Not sure why the 2016 Top Trumps Verstappen doesn't rate. I'm obviously a fan of the game cards, but F1 cards didn't magically appear on the scene when Topps decided to start printing them.

I guess I'd compare them to all the STAR cards that came out in Basketball before the 1986 Fleers, except there's no counterfeit for reprint issues to worry about.

Not saying it because I have a stack of them either. I've got exactly one from a set I picked up awhile back, and the Verstappen ended up being the worst conditioned card in the deck.

Still haven't picked up a 2009 Hamilton Top Trumps either, though I do like that card also.

Not sure that's a fair comparison. The Star are clearly conventional basketball cards, just issued differently. The game cards seem more like novelty items to me.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not sure that's a fair comparison. The Star are clearly conventional basketball cards, just issued differently. The game cards seem more like novelty items to me.

Difference of opinion I guess. I'm surprised you have this stance, considering all of the oddball and foreign issues you specialize in and collect.

All cards are novelty items IMO. They are produced and distributed in many different ways.

Neither were issued in traditional random packs. Both were issued in complete set or team set form in the case of the Star Cards.

I'd argue the Game cards are a more conventional issue, especially the way they were distributed.

Most of the Formula 1 game sets were available to the general public in one country or another in various hobby shops, toy stores, department stores, etc...

They were/are much more accessible then the Star Co. stuff, which consisted of a dealer network of about a 1/2 dozen guys in the hobby, who then sold them through SCD, at random card shows, etc...

I was involved in the show circuit at the time when those were out or coming out...and not sure anybody considered any of the Star product line, including all those Jose Canseco, Will Clark, Don Mattingly, Daryl Strawberry, etc....sets, very conventional at all.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Not sure why the 2016 Top Trumps Verstappen doesn't rate. I'm obviously a fan of the game cards, but F1 cards didn't magically appear on the scene when Topps decided to start printing them.

I guess I'd compare them to all the STAR cards that came out in Basketball before the 1986 Fleers, except there's no counterfeit for reprint issues to worry about.

Not saying it because I have a stack of them either. I've got exactly one from a set I picked up awhile back, and the Verstappen ended up being the worst conditioned card in the deck.

Still haven't picked up a 2009 Hamilton Top Trumps either, though I do like that card also.

I don't think the STAR card analogy works; the comparison that does work is the Fan Craze/National Game/Tom Barker game cards for baseball. There will always be some interest in those cards, just as there is for game cards in F1. But there is a reason people suggest cards like National Game and Tom Barker for cheap playing days cards of Ty Cobb and Shoeless Joe Jackson. The interest just isn't there to drive prices higher for the game cards.

[D. Bergin]

Just stumbled across this on Ebay. (Not mine, and I don't have one)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/39418410886...YAAOSwZBBi5bxk


Based on the numbering, this looks like an actual 2008 issue. Earliest German Ravensburger I have seen. I understand why others won't like them because of the repeat designs but they are a legitimate retail issue, and as Popeye says..."They am, what they am!"

[Bored5000]

How would you like to be the guy who dropped $312,000 on a 2006 Lewis Hamilton Futera card a few months ago, only to have his 2005 F3 card from Formule surface at action this month? I knew that card existed, but had never seen one for sale before.

https://goldin.co/item/2005-formule-...-none-lowlrkqt

I am not much of a fan of magazine cards, but $12,000 (and only three bids) right now for that card just seems way cheap compared to what his Futera card sold for a few months ago.

On a similar note, more Hamilton Futera cards are now coming out of the woodwork. I had not seen one for sale for years, but the current Goldin auction has two more up for bid.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

How would you like to be the guy who dropped $312,000 on a 2006 Lewis Hamilton Futera card a few months ago, only to have his 2005 F3 card from Formule surface at action this month? I knew that card existed, but had never seen one for sale before.

https://goldin.co/item/2005-formule-...-none-lowlrkqt

I am not much of a fan of magazine cards, but $12,000 (and only three bids) right now for that card just seems way cheap compared to what his Futera card sold for a few months ago.

On a similar note, more Hamilton Futera cards are now coming out of the woodwork. I had not seen one for sale for years, but the current Goldin auction has two more up for bid.

Did Goldin represent the Futuera was his first card? If I were the buyer of the first one I would not be happy, even more so with the others now up for auction, although Goldin could not help that unless it already had them lined up.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Did Goldin represent the Futuera was his first card?

I would have to go back and look at that auction, but a lot of the hobby believed the 2006 Futera card was his first card. Even the F1 groups I am a member of on Facebook have long had people discussing the Futera card as Hamilton's true rookie.

I did not even know the 2005 Formule card existed until there was a discussion in one of the Facebook groups about it a few months ago.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

How would you like to be the guy who dropped $312,000 on a 2006 Lewis Hamilton Futera card a few months ago, only to have his 2005 F3 card from Formule surface at action this month? I knew that card existed, but had never seen one for sale before.

https://goldin.co/item/2005-formule-...-none-lowlrkqt

I am not much of a fan of magazine cards, but $12,000 (and only three bids) right now for that card just seems way cheap compared to what his Futera card sold for a few months ago.

On a similar note, more Hamilton Futera cards are now coming out of the woodwork. I had not seen one for sale for years, but the current Goldin auction has two more up for bid.

Interesting. I don't think I was aware that card even existed.

I was wondering when more Futera's would come out. They are not common, but I'm pretty sure they had a reasonable print-run.

So far it appears Hamilton's 1st known appearances in Cards goes as follows:

Formula 3 Series - 2005 Formule (Czech publication)

Formula 2 Series - 2006 Futera

Formula 1 Series - 2007 Formule (thanks Eddie S.), 2008 Formule, 2008 Ravensbuger "Pole Position" Game card , 2009 SI For Kids Card, 2009 Top Trumps Card, Whatever 2020 Topps card you want to add to this list (Pick your poison)

I think there's another one in there, that gives even me the willies, that I'm not listing.

[Bored5000]

Goldin did bill the $312,000 Hamilton Futera card as a "rookie card."

https://goldin.co/item/2006-futera-g...-mint-9-pj71md

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Goldin did bill the $312,000 Hamilton Futera card as a "rookie card."

https://goldin.co/item/2006-futera-g...-mint-9-pj71md

Technically, in modern sports card collecting, it would be a "Pre-Rookie" card, I believe.

It's the collectors I think that ultimately decide which ones they prefer, and which ones go for the highest premiums. "Rookie" is just a word, and everybody decides for themselves what it means to them.

How many Topps Lewis Hamilton cards have the word "Rookie" next to it, when you go on Ebay? Hundreds.....

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Interesting. I don't think I was aware that card even existed.

I was wondering when more Futera's would come out. They are not common, but I'm pretty sure they had a reasonable print-run.

So far it appears Hamilton's 1st known appearances in Cards goes as follows:

Formula 3 Series - 2005 Formule (Czech publication)

Formula 2 Series - 2006 Futera

Formula 1 Series - 2008 Ravensbuger "Pole Position" Game card , 2009 SI For Kids Card, 2009 Top Trumps Card

I think there's another one in there, that gives even me the willies, that I'm not listing.

He also has a 2007 card from the Formule magazine in which he is labeled as an "F1" driver.

https://www.tcdb.com/GalleryP.cfm/pi...Lewis-Hamilton

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

He also has a 2007 card from the Formule magazine in which he is labeled as an "F1" driver.

https://www.tcdb.com/GalleryP.cfm/pi...Lewis-Hamilton

Ah, good to know. Looks like he also had a 2008 issue from them.

Wish I knew enough to start hoarding Czech magazine inserts, 10 years ago or so.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Ah, good to know. Looks like he also had a 2008 issue from them.

Wish I knew enough to start hoarding Czech magazine inserts, 10 years ago or so.

One of the 2008 Formule Hamilton cards sold at auction on eBay for around $800 maybe six months ago. There was also another 2008 Hamilton Formule listed for various prices between $500-1,000 as a BIN shortly after that, but I have not looked in a while to see if it is still listed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Is this a legit Lewis Hamilton card? When we last spoke of the choices for an early card of his, I don't recall it coming up? But there are now a couple on ebay?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38697792319...Bk9SR4TeutX3Yw

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is this a legit Lewis Hamilton card? When we last spoke of the choices for an early card of his, I don't recall it coming up? But there are now a couple on ebay?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38697792319...Bk9SR4TeutX3Yw

Yes, that is a legit early Hamilton option. The card is from a magazine in the Czech Republic and had to be torn out. Hamilton also has a 2005 F3 card and a 2007 card from the same magazine. Just in the past couple years, it seems like people have become aware of these early Hamilton options from such an obscure source.

For a while, Goldin seemed to be auctioning off raw examples of those early Hamilton Czech magazine cards at least occasionally.

Sebastian Vettel, Fernando Alonso and Nico Rosberg also have rookie cards from the same Czech magazine. Because it is an Eastern European publication, "Danica Patrickova" and "Sarah Fisherova" also have cards.

[D. Bergin]

I’ve never had one of these in hand, but shouldn’t these have “hand-cut” notations on them?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I’ve never had one of these in hand, but shouldn’t these have “hand-cut” notations on them?

The SI Kids cards don't.

[Kzoo]

Not card related, but my son and I had a great weekend at Indy for his 1st 500. The race day crowd was massive and the tradition truly makes this race the 'greatest spectacle'. He had our tickets signed by Newgarden on Legends Day and I got my '92 Michael Andretti race worn helmet signed by Marco (it was already signed by Michael and Mario). Carb day was busy with the cars on track for 2 hours. We saw Ferrucci and Daly at dinner downtown on Saturday night, too. The racing collectibles show was cool, but we only bought a couple tickets to get signed.....nothing exciting card related, but those may have disappeared on the opening day (Thursday). Can't wait for next year!

[Bored5000]

Neat autographed items, Matt. Glad you enjoyed Indy. The race looked phenomenal on television.

I had always wondered if there was much in the way of cards at the Indianapolis 500 collectibles show.

[nsaddict]

This recently sold on eBay. I believe it to be the highest sell price.

[Bored5000]

T36s have gone insane in recent months. It was not that long ago that the entire set could be purchased for under $1,000. I kick myself for not buying a whole set at auction when they were affordable.

I have been left shocked by single T36s selling for $500+ on eBay in recent months, but that Chevrolet price stuns me. I am at 11/25 on a basic T36 set, and was cringing not that long ago at the thought of paying $100+ for each card to finish the set.

[Bored5000]

I watched with interest the autographed Joe Weatherly postcard that ended last Saturday on eBay. At just $106, the final auction price seemed very low to me. I fully realize that autographs on eBay are a scammer's paradise. But I think the autograph was good after comparing it with the few other examples that could be found online.

I thought that would be a $300-400 item. Weatherly autographs are very tough. He was the NASCAR Cup series champion in 1962 and 1963, then died in a January 1964 Riverside (Cal.) crash.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176496562158