Gun ownership poll

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by G1911

It is pretty easy to identify a security guard or a police officer with a cursory background check, as most employers do. Are we going to claim we cannot identify people without a criminal record and a valid security guard permit? This is a simple thing. I don't really think a security guard will do much, but it is very easy to identify qualified individuals for the job.

"Law abiding, trained, concerned personnel" encompasses more than law enforcement. I have seen proposals to use armed citizen volunteers. How do you expect to determine if your average 60 something retired accountant is qualified or not since it is pretty much impossible to determine who is not qualified?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

"Law abiding, trained, concerned personnel" encompasses more than law enforcement. I have seen proposals to use armed citizen volunteers. How do you expect to determine if your average 60 something retired accountant is qualified or not since it is pretty much impossible to determine who is not qualified?

How is it impossible? How do you think police and security are hired for everything else? I don’t see how this would be impossible or incredibly difficult. If they can run a background check anytime I buy a gun or get a new job, they can do it for this too. It’s not “impossible” to figure out if a person has any criminal history, or is not trained in security work. This is done every single day, many times. Whether the person is a volunteer, a member of the police force, or a paid employee, I fail to see how this is difficult. If it is difficult, I fail to see how thousands and thousands of other venues across the United States manage to secure trained, law abiding security. This makes no sense.

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by G1911

How is it impossible? How do you think police and security are hired for everything else? I don’t see how this would be impossible or incredibly difficult. If they can run a background check anytime I buy a gun or get a new job, they can do it for this too. It’s not “impossible” to figure out if a person has any criminal history, or is not trained in security work. This is done every single day, many times. Whether the person is a volunteer, a member of the police force, or a paid employee, I fail to see how this is difficult. If it is difficult, I fail to see how thousands and thousands of other venues across the United States manage to secure trained, law abiding security. This makes no sense.

It only fails to make sense when you accept individual arguments on a stand-alone basis and don't need for them to hang together as a coherent whole.

There are two propositions here:

1. It is nearly impossible to identify individuals that represent risks.
2. It is trivially easy to identify individuals that don't represent risks.

Surely you can see the contradiction here.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

It only fails to make sense when you accept individual arguments on a stand-alone basis and don't need for them to hang together as a coherent whole.

There are two propositions here:

1. It is nearly impossible to identify individuals that represent risks.
2. It is trivially easy to identify individuals that don't represent risks.

Surely you can see the contradiction here.

It fails to make sense because it is so easily proven false.

Every major venue in the United States manages to find qualified security. Most universities have entire police departments that mainly exist to fine people for traffic and harass students for minor victimless crime. It is not difficult to put a security guard or officer in an elementary school - there are already tons of them on our colleges. Why is every other venue able to do this, except for K-12 schools?

It is not very difficult to find security or police personnel who are very unlikely too shoot up a school. Has this ever even happened? What risk do you think these security professionals bring to a K-12 school? What do you think a policeman in a K-12 school is going to do?

I am not really big on this idea, and not even really a supporter, but this is not a rational argument. It is provably false as every other large gathering space is able to do this perfectly fine, every single day, in all 50 states.

[irv]

A gunman killed 3 people at an Indiana mall before he was shot dead by an armed bystander
"But I'm going to tell you, the real hero of the day is the citizen that was lawfully carrying a firearm in that food court and was able to stop this shooter almost as soon as he began," Ison said
A 22-year-old from nearby Bartholomew County who was legally carrying a firearm at the mall shot and killed the gunman, Ison said at a news conference.

Pretty good composure for a 22 yr old, imo. My hat's off to him!
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/17/11119...t-indiana-mall

[Frank A]

It seems like nobody wants to hear this shit, but we need the draft back. An 18 year old still does not have a finished brain. The military helps it function properly in the long run. The service makes men out of boys. But God forbid we can't do that to the young men of today. They are babies and brought up spoiled and useless. God help this country, it's going down the drain.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Frank A

It seems like nobody wants to hear this shit, but we need the draft back. An 18 year old still does not have a finished brain. The military helps it function properly in the long run. The service makes men out of boys. But God forbid we can't do that to the young men of today. They are babies and brought up spoiled and useless. God help this country, it's going down the drain.

I would love to hear how, specifically, my generation would be in a better mental and healthier place on the whole if all of us had been forced to go shoot at a bunch of Iraqi's and Afghani's that never did anything to us.

I wonder what spicy take will come next.

[BCauley]

Originally Posted by Frank A

It seems like nobody wants to hear this shit, but we need the draft back. An 18 year old still does not have a finished brain. The military helps it function properly in the long run. The service makes men out of boys. But God forbid we can't do that to the young men of today. They are babies and brought up spoiled and useless. God help this country, it's going down the drain.

Quite possibly one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read on here.

1) I’m curious if you’ve ever served and, if so, if you ever left the wire and saw combat in any way, shape, or form. An 18 year old doesn’t have a finished brain? You’re right. So let’s go give them some shell shock!

2) Hardly anybody who volunteers wants to serve in a potential combat situation with somebody who never wanted to be there in the first place, worried that the drafted won’t have their back.

3) Makes men out of boys? To a degree, yes. It can also bring high rates of suicide, homelessness, and PTSD. “We love our veterans (During voting season anyway)!” But yes, let’s force people into that. And for what?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by irv

A gunman killed 3 people at an Indiana mall before he was shot dead by an armed bystander
"But I'm going to tell you, the real hero of the day is the citizen that was lawfully carrying a firearm in that food court and was able to stop this shooter almost as soon as he began," Ison said
A 22-year-old from nearby Bartholomew County who was legally carrying a firearm at the mall shot and killed the gunman, Ison said at a news conference.

Pretty good composure for a 22 yr old, imo. My hat's off to him!
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/17/11119...t-indiana-mall

Right after Indiana went Constitutional. Good for this man, concealed pistol vs. a rifle and he won quickly, saving many lives. Saving lives is what we care about, right? Kind of seems like a good thing this gentleman had a gun too.

[irv]

Originally Posted by G1911

Right after Indiana went Constitutional. Good for this man, concealed pistol vs. a rifle and he won quickly, saving many lives. Saving lives is what we care about, right? Kind of seems like a good thing this gentleman had a gun too.

One would think so but it seems some are more concerned about teachers/school board members carrying instead.