Gun ownership poll

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by bnorth

They are thoughtful responses you just don't like them because they do not agree with you.

I HAVE had a gun stolen out of my locked house. Why by any stretch of the imagination should I be held responseable for a gun that some POS stole from me?

I was working at Whiteman AFB and living off base. I had a week off so took a short vacation. When I got home one of my guns was missing. I instantly called the PoPo to report it. They did show up but acted like it was no big deal and didn't even want to do a report.

Weirdly the thieves stole by far the cheapest gun of the 4 in the room a Ruger 9mm. I did get it back almost a year later because it ended up being 2 people that broke into my house. One of them got arrested on a different charge and turned in his friend for stealing my gun to get his current charges reduced.

Ben, in 10 pages there have been many attempts to label any group other than the willy nillys as "banners". When several (apparently) WNINO posted a suggestion that 'made sense and they could live with', REAL willy nillys threw down the "what part of shall nots" and "criminals don't follow laws' tripe.

OK. So let's grant that any firearm located in a home (couch, microwave, cereal box, safe) is considered secure and not subject to possible prosecution. Let's say LOCKED vehicles are secure.

Can we agree that storing in an unlocked vehicle is not? And if it is stolen that it just might be considered negligent? Who knows, maybe if it is found on some kids shooting cans in a field, a fine approximately like parking at an expired meter. If it's used to shoot a convenience store clerk, I'd have to insist on a minimum of a running a red-light ticket.

Edit: post not directed at Ben personally.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Ben, in 10 pages there have been many attempts to label any group other than the willy nillys as "banners". When several (apparently) WNINO posted a suggestion that 'made sense and they could live with', REAL willy nillys threw down the "what part of shall nots" and "criminals don't follow laws' tripe.

OK. So let's grant that any firearm located in a home (couch, microwave, cereal box, safe) is considered secure and not subject to possible prosecution. Let's say LOCKED vehicles are secure.

Can we agree that storing in an unlocked vehicle is not? And if it is stolen that it just might be considered negligent? Who knows, maybe if it is found on some kids shooting cans in a field, a fine approximately like parking at an expired meter. If it's used to shoot a convenience store clerk, I'd have to insist on a minimum of a running a red-light ticket.

Edit: post not directed at Ben personally.

Because of the location I live and the way it works here. I can only say no matter the location of the gun the thief is responsable period. As an example it is hot as BLEEP here today. I can guarantee I can go to the parking lot of easily 5 different stores and there will be a vehicle with the windows open and a gun out in the open.

In all seriousness if the window is open or the car is locked with the windows up. The difference between the time it would take to steal the gun is at the most 5 seconds. To me it is plain and simple, you only punish the thief.

Now a gun laying out in the open around small kids is a whole different thing.

The one thing I hope we can all agree on is our dfferences on this subject stay in this section. As an example I think every post a fellow member made in the Covid thread is beyond moronic. Saying that I personaly think he is a great guy and would never hold that one small thing against him in the overall scheme of life. I truly wish you all a great day if we agree or not.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The one thing I hope we can all agree on is our dfferences on this subject stay in this section. As an example I think every post a fellow member made in the Covid thread is beyond moronic. Saying that I personaly think he is a great guy and would never hold that one small thing against him in the overall scheme of life. I truly wish you all a great day if we agree or not.

Differing opinions or ignorance of a subject matter may be frustrating sometimes, but is just discussion or debate. For me, it rarely affects a relationship. I don't speak to one acquaintance anymore due to Qanon, JFK Jr, Jewish space laser stuff. That is not just a difference of opinion.

But I will not tolerate racists, anti-Semites, or 'true' homophobes. That is not just a difference of opinion.
Just a bigot, I still have hope.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Differing opinions or ignorance of a subject matter may be frustrating sometimes, but is just discussion or debate. For me, it rarely affects a relationship. I don't speak to one acquaintance anymore due to Qanon, JFK Jr, Jewish space laser stuff. That is not just a difference of opinion.

But I will not tolerate racists, anti-Semites, or 'true' homophobes. That is not just a difference of opinion.
Just a bigot, I still have hope.

right i dated a girl who said she understand what mainstream historians say what happened in the holocaust and she asked what does the 'other' side say...i said there is no other side...

As for being responsible for no matter what for having a gun stolen under 'strict liability' you rarely would see that...i do support making people purchase insurance in order to own certain guns or to be able to carry them on your person as opposed to in your home ..

[Mark17]

To illustrate the absurdity, and the extreme lenghts some anti-gun people will go, there is a movement now for victims of shootings to sue gunmakers.

A company makes a legal product which is not defective and works as intended, but they are sued because a criminal uses it to hurt someone.

This kind of thing is why I'm generally suspicious of people who point first at the gun, rather than the criminal, when assigning blame.

[Deertick]

But it is OK for Congress to pass a law prohibiting gun manufacturers from being sued? I know that issue was at the tippy-top of Americans' list of priorities. No faith in the legal system?

[Carter08]

It’s ironic the same people that have a gun taken from them don’t want repercussion but guessing they want a female victim of rape to bear the burden of that crime. Sigh. Feels like we’re regressing.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Deertick

But it is OK for Congress to pass a law prohibiting gun manufacturers from being sued? I know that issue was at the tippy-top of Americans' list of priorities. No faith in the legal system?

I think a product, that is legal, must be defective in order to bring suit against it. If I get hit by a guy with a baseball bat, I think it would likewise be absurd for me to sue Hillerich & Bradsby.

When people propose 10,000% taxes on ammunition, or try to sue gun manufacturers out of business, it's just an end run around the 2nd Amendment.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Deertick

But it is OK for Congress to pass a law prohibiting gun manufacturers from being sued? I know that issue was at the tippy-top of Americans' list of priorities. No faith in the legal system?

This never happened. They did not pass a law prohibiting gun manufacturers from being sued.

A law was passed in 2005 to ease the burden of frivolous lawsuits,banning sueing gun manufacturers and dealers for a lawful sale or manufacture of an arm that a criminal later used in a crime (which were mostly losing in court already). Just like how you won't have success suing Dewalt because a family member was killed with a hammer. A gun company or dealer can be sued for pretty much everything else, like any other company, and they are.

There was one guy in here arguing using actual facts earlier, but most of the rest of the arguments from the other side have just used claims that are simply factually wrong, misunderstood existing regulations, and made claims about guns that are mechanically false.

[icurnmedic]

Only here can a victim become the perpetrator and be held liable ...
I sure hope my axes, chainsaws, kitchen knives are never stolen and used in any kind of assault.... wait does that make it an assault kitchen knife..

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

Only here can a victim become the perpetrator and be held liable ...
I sure hope my axes, chainsaws, kitchen knives are never stolen and used in any kind of assault.... wait does that make it an assault kitchen knife..

If you have a gun which can legitimately kill many people rather quickly, take reasonable steps to prevent it from be used by someone else to do bad things. A knife does not carry the same risk. It’s a cavalier post like that that makes me scared about what’s going on with these guns. Be responsible owners. Seems like it should be a basic requirement but it has not been.