National should be really interesting

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

My go to for a quick breakfast. 2 Egg McMuffins and a large coffee should power be through at least 4 hours of National searching. Do they have food available at the convention center if you need a little re-charge?

Looking for something a little heartier at night.

You don’t wanna eat anything at those concession stands unless you don’t mind a few gastrointestinal issues during the day.

Unless it’s your food I wouldn’t eat from inside those shows, maybe a soda that’s about it. Most people are packing their lunch cause it’s cheap and won’t make them sick.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

More power to you and everyone else who still manages to recapture even a fraction of the excitement that was felt when going to card shows as younger people. I'd give anything to feel that way again, but it just hasn't felt the same for over 30 years.

Agree! Me too!!

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

You don’t wanna eat anything at those concession stands unless you don’t mind a few gastrointestinal issues during the day.

Unless it’s your food I wouldn’t eat from inside those shows, maybe a soda that’s about it. Most people are packing their lunch cause it’s cheap and won’t make them sick.

Now that's a good tip! Maybe I'll start the day with three egg McMuffins.

[Leon]

If I recall correctly there was, in AC, one of the concessions that had salad and you made it yourself. I think I ate there each day. Otherwise, who cares about a little indigestion....It's a room full of gross smells anyway LOL

.

[Leon]

If I recall correctly there was, in AC, one of the concessions that had salad and you made it yourself. I think I ate there each day. Otherwise, who cares about a little indigestion....It's a room full of gross smells anyway LOL

.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Leon

If I recall correctly there was, in AC, one of the concessions that had salad and you made it yourself. I think I ate there each day. Otherwise, who cares about a little indigestion....It's a room full of gross smells anyway LOL

.

if the food doesn't give you indigestion...the prices will!!!

[Exhibitman]

Last time I was there, an outside mall was in development right across the street from the main entrance to the center and it had several restaurant choices right there.

[Fballguy]

These seem to touch all the bases...

https://philly.eater.com/maps/best-r...-atlantic-city

https://www.thrillist.com/eat/nation...-atlantic-city

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by bounce

This type of thread surfaces every year. I've got news for everyone as it relates to nice looking vintage, and it's not really news - the majority of it is owned by people who don't have to sell it.

Let me say that again - the majority of nice looking vintage is owned by people who don't have to sell it. The true "diamond hands" in this hobby tend to own this stuff, and it is the absolute last thing they would ever sell unless they got their price. I don't discount this stuff at shows (because there's also so few other dealers who have much of it).

Any of us who are waiting on the "crash" in the prices of these cards is going to continue to be waiting...and waiting and waiting and waiting. Year after year we keep hoping and praying for these cards to decline, and year after year they get a little more expensive. It's frustrating for sure, but it's reality. If you're approaching this National thinking this stuff should be or could be "on sale", and that those dealers are going to be desperate for cash, you're going to be worse than disappointed.

Also, some of these "modern" kids have started dabbling in vintage, as many are hitting that timeline in their collecting journey when they've discovered that there are some very interesting and historic players that are worthy of collecting. That's keeping the demand side quite high, and as modern continues to have issues I suspect there will continue to be some transfer of funds toward vintage. It just makes sense.

So what to do? Make shorter lists of cards you really want, and be prepared to pay going rate to get them. Be patient, search out the card that really is the one for you and be ready to grab it, if it makes sense and you can afford it. If not, pick something else - there's always something else to collect.

Carry on.

I am not sure what cards or issues you are referring to when you write nice looking vintage--that is pretty vague but I think we are all seeing nice looking as well as not so nice looking vintage as coming down in price. Whether or not any dealer who is in possession of this type of stuff needs to sell or not, if they want to sell, they might not get their price unless their price reflects the adjustment we are seeing pretty much across the board.

Everyone who attends a National (as a buyer or as a seller) is anticipating and intending to do business. It is a lot of effort to simply go to set up and show off your stuff. That can be done without leaving your home or office.

[Tony Gordon]

Looking forward to the National. I have attended most of the Chicago shows but this will be my first in Atlantic City. I sell online and at local shows and have always found that the National is the easiest place to sell cards, regardless of what is going on with the economy or the hobby. The National is a unique event and is always a good time. If you don't like card shows and crowds, the National is not the place for you. If you love card shows and don't mind crowds, the National is heaven on Earth. I absolutely love it. Though, you guys have me a little worried about the food...

[Johnny630]

I would guess for a regular booth at the National for the week is 1400-1500 bucks plus add on meal lodging for the week and travel. I estimate a easy 3,000k before your sell one card. I don’t know to many dealers who are just going to come for show and not expect to make money…idk anymore lol

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I would guess for a regular booth at the National for the week is 1400-1500 bucks plus add on meal lodging for the week and travel. I estimate a easy 3,000k before your sell one card. I don’t know to many dealers who are just going to come for show and not expect to make money…idk anymore lol

All of which is written off.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

All of which is written off.

"Written Off" does not equal free it just let's you deduct a business expense.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

All of which is written off.

Written off can we please not take this one to taxes, lol to many post seem to go that way, lol. We still love you Bob C However this one, my observations, is strictly about the dealers initial upfront expenses.

All I’m saying is this is an easy 3k off the bat for the dealer, he has to figure this in to his prices and profit margins before one customer walks the floor. That would be my goal to at least make that back day one if I was set up as a dealer at one of these Nationals. Idk

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by bnorth

"Written Off" does not equal free it just let's you deduct a business expense.

Correct...but it helps.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

Looking forward to the National. I have attended most of the Chicago shows but this will be my first in Atlantic City. I sell online and at local shows and have always found that the National is the easiest place to sell cards, regardless of what is going on with the economy or the hobby. The National is a unique event and is always a good time. If you don't like card shows and crowds, the National is not the place for you. If you love card shows and don't mind crowds, the National is heaven on Earth. I absolutely love it. Though, you guys have me a little worried about the food...

Directly across from the convention center is a bar called the Tun Tavern. Like a 100 feet across a street if I recall correctly. Good place for a lunch break for a cold pint and some good bar food. Highly recommendation. I wouldn't eat the the convention center. No sir.

https://www.tuntavern.com/

[Steve_NY]

Johnny,

Really good estimate -- but $3,000 covers the booth cost, the hotel and travel costs. Gas prices will increase all of our costs this year. I figure all of the other costs such as meals every day add to another $500 - $1,000. If I work hard every day, which I do, I want to have a good dinner every night, and I am paying for two. So I have to do at least $3,000 - $4,000 before I make a penny. But I only set up at one show a year, so I try to make the best of it and hopefully I make enough to keep me happy until the next National.

Steve_NY
DynamicTwo@Aol.com

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Steve_NY

Johnny,

Really good estimate -- but $3,000 covers the booth cost, the hotel and travel costs. Gas prices will increase all of our costs this year. I figure all of the other costs such as meals every day add to another $500 - $1,000. If I work hard every day, which I do, I want to have a good dinner every night, and I am paying for two. So I have to do at least $3,000 - $4,000 before I make a penny. But I only set up at one show a year, so I try to make the best of it and hopefully I make enough to keep me happy until the next National.

Steve_NY
DynamicTwo@Aol.com

I hope you have a great show Steve :-)

[Michael B]

And the one expense no one has mentioned: the initial cost of the inventory you are selling. That is also part of the equation. Yes, some like Steve have stock they purchased years ago so it may not be as big an issue. There are probably more than a few dealers who are purchasing year round not just for this show, but to keep their inventory fresh or deals too good to pass up.

[Steve_NY]

Michael, I didn't bring up the cost of inventory but I did think about it. As you said, most of my sales are of items I bought 30-40 years ago. I tend to try and make a new display every year and hopefully attract interest from other sellers.

But here's a funny story: I had a friend named Stanley Salomon who did every one of my monthly shows in Bayside, NY. He also set up at the Gloria Rothstein shows and would take 3 tables for like $1,000. Then when he did $1,200 to $1,500 he would be like a pig in you know what. I would say Stanley, only rent one table and you cut your costs and you make a decent profit, but he would always say that he couldn't get everything out.

BTW, I still spend a huge amount every year on sports and non-sports, which this year was more than ever before, but sales to long-time customers have made those investments worthwhile. My latest acquisitions will see the light of day for the first time after sitting for 50-80 years in a box in a basement.

Thanks for your good luck wishes.

Steve
DynamicTwo@aol.com

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Donscards

Well said Bill. I know I am excited for the National. I know the economy is rough right now. I expect to have plenty of sales and also bringing plenty of cash to buy. And who knows,maybe Bill will sell me his psa 6 Ty Cobb!!

Don - tough economy or not, I don’t see auction sales for quality Ruth’s, Cobb’s, Gehrig’s, Mantle’s, etc. suffering one bit. Quality vintage cards & autographs still realizing solid numbers. The beat rolls on!

[Jewish-collector]

Steve or anyone - Let's say a long time collector wants to set up at the National & sell their high end cards. How difficult is it for them to get a table for one time selling at a National ?

[Steve_NY]

1 -- I keep reading comments that vintage is cool -- but I don't agree -- I have been doing this for almost 50 years, and I have not set up at one show thisyear, but my sales are top ten already -- maybe even top 5. So vintage for me is HOT.

Personally, I thought it was that Modern cards have cooled down?

2 -- Only way to get a booth at the National is to be there on Saturday to complete a contract for the following year. Just check on that by calling Megan at the NSCC.

Other way would be to rent space from another seller who wants to cut their costs. Many sellers do that every year. I don't because I use all of my booth for ten showcases and set up other items in the back of my booth -- hopefully out of the reach of thiefs (Yes they are all over every show hoping you get distracted).

Good luck.

Steve_NY

[parkplace33]

Speaking of expenses, do out of state dealers have to get a temporary sales tax id at the National? If so, what is the cost? I thought Chicago required it last National.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Steve or anyone - Let's say a long time collector wants to set up at the National & sell their high end cards. How difficult is it for them to get a table for one time selling at a National ?

Very.

I finally got a booth this year, I was the third to last guy picked among the waiting list or new dealers.

[Jewish-collector]

Mazel Tov Scott beer chug.gif

[Steve_NY]

Once you have your foot in the door, keep getting a booth for the next year to build seniority. I got in with Parsippany and kept my priority building every year so that at this National, I have done 38 of them and only 24 booths have a higher priority than me.

Sad to say, but most of my peers have passed on. Many of them were friends and I remember all of our earlier deals like it was yesterday.

Steve_NY

[bounce]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I am not sure what cards or issues you are referring to when you write nice looking vintage--that is pretty vague but I think we are all seeing nice looking as well as not so nice looking vintage as coming down in price. Whether or not any dealer who is in possession of this type of stuff needs to sell or not, if they want to sell, they might not get their price unless their price reflects the adjustment we are seeing pretty much across the board.

Everyone who attends a National (as a buyer or as a seller) is anticipating and intending to do business. It is a lot of effort to simply go to set up and show off your stuff. That can be done without leaving your home or office.

When I say "nice looking vintage" I mean centered - really centered not 60/40 or 70/30 - no obtrusive creases, no stains, cards with strong if not great color and registration. Cards that stop you when you walk by the case.

Please share where you're seeing this stuff come down in price because I'm obviously not looking in the right places. Eye appeal continues to be the driving force on prices across the board.

Any graded T206 Cobb in any pose, PSA 3-4-5 of other T206 HOFers (especially portraits), heck even "authentic" Planks and others continue to go up when auctioned, ANY Cracker Jacks (not just HOFers), Goudey Ruths and Gehrigs. 1950s RCs may have come down some from the peak but the nice ones, like truly centered 1954 Aarons and 1955 Clementes, all pretty difficult to locate and auction prices still reflect very strong interest from PSA 5 to PSA 8. 1952 Mantles - there are no "deals" on these any more (if there ever really were).

I don't know what vintage you see that's slipping, maybe the borderline off center stuff and PSA 4s and less from the 1950s/1960s, but solid stuff gets solid bids and it's harder than ever to find. I know because I collect graded sets from these years, and I'm adding cards much slower than I have in the past and I'm having to pay more than I ever have. That's true at every show I've been to in the past year and it's going to be true in AC.

And not everyone who goes to the National is there strictly for commerce - there are lots of people there for the autographs, some people are there for giveaways, some are there to just experience it.

Here's another tip - if you're just there for the money and the commerce, you're actually going to "miss" the show entirely.

[rjackson44]

cracker jacks insane