Share your contrarian hobby opinions

[Eric72]

Contrarian views:

• T205 cards look hideous
• Nolan Ryan was overrated (and his rookie card is U-G-L-Y)
• I have a great deal of respect for the Baseball Hall of Fame
• The two greatest team sports are Baseball and Hockey. Watching football or basketball instantly lowers the intelligence level of the viewer.
• 1955 Bowman Baseball cards are beautiful
• Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens belong in the Hall of Fame

[Jerry G]

I really dislike horizontal cards like 1955 and 1956 Topps. My hands were perfectly made to hold and appreciate cards vertically. With a horizontal card I need to twist my hand down awkwardly. This is supposed to be fun? A premium price for T206 Pelty because it is sideways? Please.

1953 Bowman set is beautiful but, that Pee Wee Reese card? The majority of the picture is sky and dirt. Reese's whole body is represented by less than an inch tall. Why is he wearing a red sweatshirt? Is that a Dodger teammate laying on second base? Why is there no flying dust? Where are the other players and umpires? AND it's horizonal!

[rats60]

The 1952 Topps set is the ugliest set ever made. As kids when we got a Flexichrome card (such as the 1959 Bob Gibson), they looked hideous and we hated them. What could be worse than a whole set of them?

The 1953 Topps set isn't much better. They look like failed High School art projects and many don't even look like the players. I don't know how Topps stayed in business in 1951-1954 with such poor designs compared to Bowman.

1949 Leaf and 1955 Bowman are ugly too. The printing quality was so bad on the Leafs, it is no wonder the 2nd series sold poorly and the rest of the set was never made. The color TVs are ridiculous on the 1955 Bowmans and it doesn't help that you open a pack and the cards are different sizes. It is no wonder that it was Bowman's last set, they clearly were out of good ideas.

For prewar cards, I don't get the fascination with Delongs, Diamond Stars or Cracker Jacks. An oversized player in an undersized stadium? No thanks. The backgrounds on Diamond Stars? Yuck. The only thing worse is all bright red backgrounds of Cracker Jacks.

The 1952 Topps Mantle is the 1951 Bowman Paul Richards of Topps cards. Who thought it would be funny to give Mickey a bright yellow bat? Flexichrome was bad enough, an ugly cartoonish card just made it the worst.

Lou Gehrig, Jackie Robinson, Roberto Clemente and Sandy Koufax cards are under valued. Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and Ty Cobb cards are way over valued.

The PSA 8 t206 Honus Wagner belongs in a PSA 8 holder. PSA graded sheet cut cards for a long time. I believe Beckett still grades sheet cut cards. In the junk wax era, Topps sold uncut sheets by the pallet to other companies because they did a much better job of cutting them. I would be willing to bet most if not all PSA 10s from this era where cards not cut by Topps. Why do people pick on one card when there are thousands of sheet cut cards in PSA holders with numbers?

Speaking of the t206 Wagner, if a 52 Topps Mantle sells for 7 figures as do a few modern cards, all t206 Wagners should be 8 figures. Also, t206 Planks and 1933 Goudey Lajoies should be worth more than any post war card, as well as several other key prewar cards. Prewar cards and way under valued and postwar cards are way over valued.

Nolan Ryan is one of the greatest pitchers ever. He has one of the lowest FIPs of the live ball era, the lowest H/9 ever and his ERA of 3.19 is solid despite having some pretty bad defenses behind him. He should have won 4 Cy Young awards (1973, 1977, 1981 and 1987). Although his cards are as overrated/overvalued as his on field performance was undervalued.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

The 1952 Topps set is the ugliest set ever made. As kids when we got a Flexichrome card (such as the 1959 Bob Gibson), they looked hideous and we hated them. What could be worse than a whole set of them?

The 1953 Topps set isn't much better. They look like failed High School art projects and many don't even look like the players. I don't know how Topps stayed in business in 1951-1954 with such poor designs compared to Bowman.

1949 Leaf and 1955 Bowman are ugly too. The printing quality was so bad on the Leafs, it is no wonder the 2nd series sold poorly and the rest of the set was never made. The color TVs are ridiculous on the 1955 Bowmans and it doesn't help that you open a pack and the cards are different sizes. It is no wonder that it was Bowman's last set, they clearly were out of good ideas.

For prewar cards, I don't get the fascination with Delongs, Diamond Stars or Cracker Jacks. An oversized player in an undersized stadium? No thanks. The backgrounds on Diamond Stars? Yuck. The only thing worse is all bright red backgrounds of Cracker Jacks.

The 1952 Topps Mantle is the 1951 Bowman Paul Richards of Topps cards. Who thought it would be funny to give Mickey a bright yellow bat? Flexichrome was bad enough, an ugly cartoonish card just made it the worst.

Lou Gehrig, Jackie Robinson, Roberto Clemente and Sandy Koufax cards are under valued. Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and Ty Cobb cards are way over valued.

The PSA 8 t206 Honus Wagner belongs in a PSA 8 holder. PSA graded sheet cut cards for a long time. I believe Beckett still grades sheet cut cards. In the junk wax era, Topps sold uncut sheets by the pallet to other companies because they did a much better job of cutting them. I would be willing to bet most if not all PSA 10s from this era where cards not cut by Topps. Why do people pick on one card when there are thousands of sheet cut cards in PSA holders with numbers?

Speaking of the t206 Wagner, if a 52 Topps Mantle sells for 7 figures as do a few modern cards, all t206 Wagners should be 8 figures. Also, t206 Planks and 1933 Goudey Lajoies should be worth more than any post war card, as well as several other key prewar cards. Prewar cards and way under valued and postwar cards are way over valued.

Nolan Ryan is one of the greatest pitchers ever. He has one of the lowest FIPs of the live ball era, the lowest H/9 ever and his ERA of 3.19 is solid despite having some pretty bad defenses behind him. He should have won 4 Cy Young awards (1973, 1977, 1981 and 1987). Although his cards are as overrated/overvalued as his on field performance was undervalued.

End the thread. No one can possibly top this outpouring of contrarian views. Fantastic. As to Wagner, the card is both sheet cut and then trimmed again on top of that. Question, if you can forgive the original sheet cut, does the further deliberate trimming matter?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

End the thread. No one can possibly top this outpouring of contrarian views. Fantastic. As to Wagner, the card is both sheet cut and then trimmed again on top of that. Question, if you can forgive the original sheet cut, does the further deliberate trimming matter?

Some comic collectors probably think the Wagner could be cleaned and pressed into a 9.8

[jsfriedm]

Tinker, Evers, and Chance are more likely legitimately great players who deserve to be in the HOF, rather than marginal players who got in because of a poem. The point of the game is to win, and the 1904-1913 Cubs won more games than any team in history over a decade. The only other HOFer on the team is Brown. The team won with by not only allowing fewer earned runs than anyone else, but fewer unearned runs. So who gets credit for all that winning?

Most of the Boys of Summer are overrated though, partly because of the bandbox they played in, and in Snider's case, because they never threw lefties against the Dodgers (I think Spahn started two games against Brooklyn over a span of several years in the mid-1950s).

The 1960s Giants were the most underachieving team of all time.

[Yoda]

The '51/2 Berk Ross set is undervalued and under appreciated. Despite the cheap look of the cards, they offer an alternative to the high price of '51 Bowmans and '52 Topps. The Mickey, a faux '51 Bowman, Jackie, Joe D., Teddy W. have all shown big price increases in the past 18 mos. And the '51 Musial card is his only national issue for that year.
The set also contains the RC's of Ben Hogan and Bob Cousy.

[brianp-beme]

My hobby goal (for over 15 years) is to correct a long held misconception and make the following statement less of a contrarian view:

The E91 American Caramel sets of cards do not have generic artwork.

The E91A set features facial artwork that was derived from photographs of the player that is designated on the card. About 1/2 of the E91B cards are repeats from the E91A, and thus once again accurate facial depictions. The other 1/2 of the E91B set as well as all of the E91C set do not accurately reflect the player designated, but are still not 'generic', they just have inaccurate player designations on the card.

As a related note, E254 Colgan's Chips cards do have a great portrait photos of players of this era, as was pointed out in a previous post, and many of the photos used in the Colgan set were the basis of the E91 facial artwork.

Brian

[Shemp]

Topps 1959 is a great set.

Topps 1953 Satchel Paige is a horrible looking card.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

End the thread. No one can possibly top this outpouring of contrarian views. Fantastic. As to Wagner, the card is both sheet cut and then trimmed again on top of that. Question, if you can forgive the original sheet cut, does the further deliberate trimming matter?

We know that Mastro admitted trimming the Wagner but I don't buy the speculation that it was cut from a sheet just prior to that by Alan Ray, Bob Sevchuck or anyone else. There would have been multiple examples of Wagner on the sheet and none have surfaced in past the 35+ years to support the speculation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Pat R

We know that Mastro admitted trimming the Wagner but I don't buy the speculation that it was cut from a sheet just prior to that by Alan Ray, Bob Sevchuck or anyone else. There would have been multiple examples of Wagner on the sheet and none have surfaced in past the 35+ years to support the speculation.

Wasn't there a companion sheet cut Plank? In any case I don't understand anyone to be claiming Ray or Sevchuck had cut it, just that it was in fact sheet cut wherever it originated.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Wasn't there a companion sheet cut Plank? In any case I don't understand anyone to be claiming Ray or Sevchuck had cut it, just that it was in fact sheet cut wherever it originated.

It's speculated that this Plank might have come from the same sheet.

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=12350

[gonefishin]

Isn't this one of the most horrible cards of Mantle every made? Look how childish he looks!

[Jerry G]

Napolean Lajoie does not appear in the 1933 Goudey set. He does have a card in the 1934 Goudey issue with a peculiar number.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Wasn't there a companion sheet cut Plank? In any case I don't understand anyone to be claiming Ray or Sevchuck had cut it, just that it was in fact sheet cut wherever it originated.

I've seen the claim on numerous occasions it was even in the book The Card.

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img840.jpg

[G1911]

If the Wagner came from uncut material, my presumption would be it wasn’t actually a full sheet and was a strip. A sheet or even a panel of a sheet should have multiple Wagners (and Plank’s, if the Plank came from the same source).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I've seen the claim on numerous occasions it was even in the book The Card.

Attachment 521673
Attachment 521674

OK now I recall that from the book. Why are you skeptical?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I've seen the claim on numerous occasions it was even in the book The Card.

Attachment 521673
Attachment 521674

I am far from an expert on the Wagner topic but had heard from numerous people describing the author as a tabloid esque reporter and found many inaccuracies in The Card so I never read it.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by rats60

Nolan Ryan is one of the greatest pitchers ever. He has one of the lowest FIPs of the live ball era, the lowest H/9 ever and his ERA of 3.19 is solid despite having some pretty bad defenses behind him. He should have won 4 Cy Young awards (1973, 1977, 1981 and 1987). Although his cards are as overrated/overvalued as his on field performance was undervalued.

i appreciate Bill James' take on Ryan:

"I know there are probably none of you in the audience who don’t remember Nolan Ryan, but as an organizing device, I’m going to pretend there are, anyway. Nolan Ryan was the ultimate power pitcher. Ryan threw harder than any other pitcher of his generation or perhaps any generation, and it wasn’t like he did this once. Ryan could stand on the mound and throw a hundred miles an hour for 9 innings, 10 innings, 11, 12, 13. He would throw more than 200 pitches in a game, come back three days later ready to do it again. He did this for years in a four-man rotation, switched to a five-man rotation and pitched another fifteen years. He threw no-hitters almost as a matter of routine. He holds the single-season record for strikeouts, and broke the career record for strikeouts by some ridiculous margin.

Nolan Ryan was Roger Clemens’ boyhood idol, but whereas Clemens became a genuinely great pitcher Ryan was not. Ryan was the most impressive pitcher who ever lived. He did absolutely phenomenal things with such regularity that people took it for granted. But he was not a great pitcher because he never compromised, which means that he never adjusted. He was, in a sense, a perpetual rookie. He was out there to strike the hitter out—period, even when he was 44 years old. He could be behind the number eight hitter 2-0 with the bases empty, and in his mind he was still working on a strikeout. The concept of “let him hit it and see what happens” absolutely wasn’t there for him."

[jingram058]

Nolan Ryan WAS a great pitcher. And because I am contrary, it is not something up for debate or discussion. I don't care how many stats you come up with, comparisons to any other pitchers you name, whatever. He was. Period. End of discussion.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by rats60

The 1952 Topps set is the ugliest set ever made. As kids when we got a Flexichrome card (such as the 1959 Bob Gibson), they looked hideous and we hated them. What could be worse than a whole set of them?

The 1953 Topps set isn't much better. They look like failed High School art projects and many don't even look like the players. I don't know how Topps stayed in business in 1951-1954 with such poor designs compared to Bowman.

1949 Leaf and 1955 Bowman are ugly too. The printing quality was so bad on the Leafs, it is no wonder the 2nd series sold poorly and the rest of the set was never made. The color TVs are ridiculous on the 1955 Bowmans and it doesn't help that you open a pack and the cards are different sizes. It is no wonder that it was Bowman's last set, they clearly were out of good ideas.

For prewar cards, I don't get the fascination with Delongs, Diamond Stars or Cracker Jacks. An oversized player in an undersized stadium? No thanks. The backgrounds on Diamond Stars? Yuck. The only thing worse is all bright red backgrounds of Cracker Jacks.

The 1952 Topps Mantle is the 1951 Bowman Paul Richards of Topps cards. Who thought it would be funny to give Mickey a bright yellow bat? Flexichrome was bad enough, an ugly cartoonish card just made it the worst.

Lou Gehrig, Jackie Robinson, Roberto Clemente and Sandy Koufax cards are under valued. Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and Ty Cobb cards are way over valued.

The PSA 8 t206 Honus Wagner belongs in a PSA 8 holder. PSA graded sheet cut cards for a long time. I believe Beckett still grades sheet cut cards. In the junk wax era, Topps sold uncut sheets by the pallet to other companies because they did a much better job of cutting them. I would be willing to bet most if not all PSA 10s from this era where cards not cut by Topps. Why do people pick on one card when there are thousands of sheet cut cards in PSA holders with numbers?

Speaking of the t206 Wagner, if a 52 Topps Mantle sells for 7 figures as do a few modern cards, all t206 Wagners should be 8 figures. Also, t206 Planks and 1933 Goudey Lajoies should be worth more than any post war card, as well as several other key prewar cards. Prewar cards and way under valued and postwar cards are way over valued.

Nolan Ryan is one of the greatest pitchers ever. He has one of the lowest FIPs of the live ball era, the lowest H/9 ever and his ERA of 3.19 is solid despite having some pretty bad defenses behind him. He should have won 4 Cy Young awards (1973, 1977, 1981 and 1987). Although his cards are as overrated/overvalued as his on field performance was undervalued.

Who hurt you?


kidding aside, good contrarian post, I'll take those pesky CJ14 Cobbs and 53 Mantles off your hands if it would help.

-

[Snapolit1]

1914 and 15 Cracker Jacks are the most virtually stunning cards ever created. Their beauty lies in their simplicity. They are the Natalie Wood of baseball cards.

Not a contrarian take; not a hot take; just a matter of fact.

[Carter08]

There are many cards that would be more valuable if they were less rare.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Carter08

There are many cards that would be more valuable if they were less rare.

Interesting point, can you give an example?

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Interesting point, can you give an example?

Gehrig Star Player

Leaf Premiums.