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[JollyElm]

What constitutes a wrinkle of a crease?

Someone asked me for more information on a 1967 Topps #200 Willie Mays card I have available for trade, so I grabbed pics and am trying to describe it accurately. Here's the question...

What actually constitutes a crease or wrinkle to the TPGs??

In the first shot, I captured the sun's reflection off the overall gloss of the card front. It looks pretty consistent throughout, but on further ‘scangling’ (tilting it in the light) to really focus in on that area, there is a definite straight line cleft in the gloss up there. It very well may be naturally occurring, as there isn't even a hint of damage in the area, and it doesn't in any way, shape or form appear on back. I would never call it a wrinkle or crease, but it is some sort of impression that is only gloss deep (no cardboard was harmed in filming this movie).

• Wishful thinking aside, would this impression in the gloss be considered a member of the crease/wrinkle family and immediately drop it down to a maximum grade of a PSA 4 (or whatever), before it's even looked at?

• Or is this type of thing considered a 'normal'(?) surface anomaly that would NOT immediately drop the number grade (unless, of course, it's one of multiple factors that combine to lower the grade)?

• Does anyone have any specific insight into this? We all see all sorts of natural (sometimes unnatural) pock marks and whatnot on the surfaces of cards, but when do they turn into number-dropping detractions?


1967mayswrinkle?.jpg


The obvious answer is yes, it has to be considered a wrinkle, but does anyone have any specific information from a TPG's perspective?


ETA:
For context, let me add a normal pic to illustrate what I mean by there being no damage or anything a normal person would call a crease. Tilting it like that into the heart of the sun really overblows it...

1967mayswrinkle?02.jpg

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

What constitutes a wrinkle of a crease?


• Wishful thinking aside, would this impression in the gloss be considered a member of the crease/wrinkle family and immediately drop it down to a maximum grade of a PSA 4 (or whatever), before it's even looked at?

This kind of thing is subjective, and why professional grading more or less will always wear the tinge of being a scam. Creases and wrinkles are called out in definitions by all of the major TPG's (PSA, SGC, Beckett...) but nuances are not described. One grader might call that line a factory defect in the cardboard sheet, and not discount it as a crease. I've had cards like that before in PSA 6 slabs. But another one might consider it a full-blown crease and give your card a 2 or 3, which would be rather harsh IMO.

Cards left the factory with minor defects like that all the time. Just another thing that is not considered in applying a random 21st century standard to pieces of ephemera which nobody ever expected to be judged this way at the time they were made.

[JollyElm]

How do you go about prepping an oversized card to send off to a TPG?

For a regular sized card, you slip it into a standard Card Saver I, and you're done with that aspect. But what if I want to send a single 1964 Topps Giant or 1967 Topps Pin-Ups card? Is there a DIY way to get this going, as buying whatever semi-rigid holders are made for cards of that size isn't an option?

I assume that securing the bare card (not housed in plastic) between two pieces of cardboard probably wouldn't fly. Anyone with experience in this area have any insights to offer?


Edited to add: SGC responded to my question thusly:
"In lieu of a top loader that will fit the cards, you can use cardboard and sandwich the cards between them. Rubber band them together and send it in."

Further clarification:
"You may individually sandwich each oversized card in with their own cardboard piece. I wouldn't suggest putting the cards together."

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

How do you go about prepping an oversized card to send off to a TPG?

If the card fits in an oversized CSIV, use that. If not, a toploader is perfectly fine to submit to PSA in. Same thing for cards too wide to put in CS's properly. When I used to submit these types of cards to PSA, I would try to use the appropriate sized penny sleeve (or comic bag) and then fold over the flap and tuck it inside the toploader. That way the card was secured in the toploader, but was not taped down. PSA hates tape. Another option is to put the toploader into a resealable team bag or comic bag that fits it.

[JollyElm]

I believe I need to clarify:

I don't have a single card saver or toploader or anything that holds oversized cards, and have no desire to purchase them, because this is most likely a one time thing. So, I guess the question is, to properly submit this type of card, is there a home remedy? Are two sheets of cardboard NOT an acceptable way to submit it? Should I find flat, plastic packaging and forge a homemade toploader? That's really what I am asking. With the lack of a proper toploader, how do I send a large Pin-Up or Giant card in to a TPG?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

With the lack of a proper toploader, how do I send a large Pin-Up or Giant card in to a TPG?

I am not aware of a do-it-yourself solution. I would go to the local card shop and purchase one. The local card shop in my area also sells paper currency holders and ones intended to fit oversized cards or vintage stock shares.

Otherwise, maybe one of those three-ring binder 8.5x11 sheet holders you can get at an office supply store. I think the issue is that if it's not rigid/semi-rigid, it's likely to get damaged during shipment.

If you want a specific answer to this question, I think you're going to have to ask it to their customer support module.

[JollyElm]

For posterity, I added SGC's answer to the original post asking the question.

"In lieu of a top loader that will fit the cards, you can use cardboard and sandwich the cards between them. Rubber band them together and send it in."

Also, for clarification:
"You may individually sandwich each oversized card in with their own cardboard piece. I wouldn't suggest putting the cards together."