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[JollyElm]

I'm getting ready to send my wrong back 1974 Topps Dave Winfield RC into SGC. My collection is pretty straight forward 1950s to '70s stuff. Insufferably long waits aside, are there types of cards that are 'better' (whatever that means to you personally) to send into SGC than to PSA? I guess my focus would really be on eventual resale value, and not aesthetics or anything along those lines.

The wrong back is a must, but is there anything else that stands out in the timeframe I mentioned?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

My collection is pretty straight forward 1950s to '70s stuff. Insufferably long waits aside, are there types of cards that are 'better' (whatever that means to you personally) to send into SGC than to PSA?

SGC since 2020 has gone overboard with being tough on centering. From what I have seen, they are now tougher on centering, and PSA is still tougher on corners. PSA will give a card a 5 for corners that I've seen get 6's with SGC - just my opinion. But I've also seen SGC lose the script on centering and horribly downgrade cards just because of that. I had a certain Mickey Mantle card that was a harshly graded SGC 5; I busted it and sent it back to them and they gave it a 6.5.

So bottom line, I would not send any "close" cards in terms of centering standards that you want to get a certain grade to SGC. Part of the problem may also be new graders or those that can't figure out percentage math beyond 60/40. SGC is great basically with giving well-centered cards fair grades in respect to their other problems. But with OC, they misjudge stated centering standards far too often for my tastes.

[JollyElm]

What constitutes a wrinkle of a crease?

Someone asked me for more information on a 1967 Topps #200 Willie Mays card I have available for trade, so I grabbed pics and am trying to describe it accurately. Here's the question...

What actually constitutes a crease or wrinkle to the TPGs??

In the first shot, I captured the sun's reflection off the overall gloss of the card front. It looks pretty consistent throughout, but on further ‘scangling’ (tilting it in the light) to really focus in on that area, there is a definite straight line cleft in the gloss up there. It very well may be naturally occurring, as there isn't even a hint of damage in the area, and it doesn't in any way, shape or form appear on back. I would never call it a wrinkle or crease, but it is some sort of impression that is only gloss deep (no cardboard was harmed in filming this movie).

• Wishful thinking aside, would this impression in the gloss be considered a member of the crease/wrinkle family and immediately drop it down to a maximum grade of a PSA 4 (or whatever), before it's even looked at?

• Or is this type of thing considered a 'normal'(?) surface anomaly that would NOT immediately drop the number grade (unless, of course, it's one of multiple factors that combine to lower the grade)?

• Does anyone have any specific insight into this? We all see all sorts of natural (sometimes unnatural) pock marks and whatnot on the surfaces of cards, but when do they turn into number-dropping detractions?


1967mayswrinkle?.jpg


The obvious answer is yes, it has to be considered a wrinkle, but does anyone have any specific information from a TPG's perspective?


ETA:
For context, let me add a normal pic to illustrate what I mean by there being no damage or anything a normal person would call a crease. Tilting it like that into the heart of the sun really overblows it...

1967mayswrinkle?02.jpg

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

What constitutes a wrinkle of a crease?


• Wishful thinking aside, would this impression in the gloss be considered a member of the crease/wrinkle family and immediately drop it down to a maximum grade of a PSA 4 (or whatever), before it's even looked at?

This kind of thing is subjective, and why professional grading more or less will always wear the tinge of being a scam. Creases and wrinkles are called out in definitions by all of the major TPG's (PSA, SGC, Beckett...) but nuances are not described. One grader might call that line a factory defect in the cardboard sheet, and not discount it as a crease. I've had cards like that before in PSA 6 slabs. But another one might consider it a full-blown crease and give your card a 2 or 3, which would be rather harsh IMO.

Cards left the factory with minor defects like that all the time. Just another thing that is not considered in applying a random 21st century standard to pieces of ephemera which nobody ever expected to be judged this way at the time they were made.

[JollyElm]

How do you go about prepping an oversized card to send off to a TPG?

For a regular sized card, you slip it into a standard Card Saver I, and you're done with that aspect. But what if I want to send a single 1964 Topps Giant or 1967 Topps Pin-Ups card? Is there a DIY way to get this going, as buying whatever semi-rigid holders are made for cards of that size isn't an option?

I assume that securing the bare card (not housed in plastic) between two pieces of cardboard probably wouldn't fly. Anyone with experience in this area have any insights to offer?


Edited to add: SGC responded to my question thusly:
"In lieu of a top loader that will fit the cards, you can use cardboard and sandwich the cards between them. Rubber band them together and send it in."

Further clarification:
"You may individually sandwich each oversized card in with their own cardboard piece. I wouldn't suggest putting the cards together."

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

How do you go about prepping an oversized card to send off to a TPG?

If the card fits in an oversized CSIV, use that. If not, a toploader is perfectly fine to submit to PSA in. Same thing for cards too wide to put in CS's properly. When I used to submit these types of cards to PSA, I would try to use the appropriate sized penny sleeve (or comic bag) and then fold over the flap and tuck it inside the toploader. That way the card was secured in the toploader, but was not taped down. PSA hates tape. Another option is to put the toploader into a resealable team bag or comic bag that fits it.

[JollyElm]

I believe I need to clarify:

I don't have a single card saver or toploader or anything that holds oversized cards, and have no desire to purchase them, because this is most likely a one time thing. So, I guess the question is, to properly submit this type of card, is there a home remedy? Are two sheets of cardboard NOT an acceptable way to submit it? Should I find flat, plastic packaging and forge a homemade toploader? That's really what I am asking. With the lack of a proper toploader, how do I send a large Pin-Up or Giant card in to a TPG?