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#501
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I think you are confusing political convenience with "anytime mass shootings become normal"
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#502
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Still awaiting to here why criminals are going to surrender or not use almost every magazine in existence because a ban is passed. I’m sure this will solve psycho’s going psycho.
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#503
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Think of these laws as tourniquet to try to SLOW the bleeding. |
#504
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Even assuming it’s the gun that’s the problem, maybe the 400,000,000 guns that are peaceably owned aren’t the problem and it’s the ~10,000 that will used in murders this year. But no, we should eradicate the ‘fluid’ bill of rights instead. I eagerly await this principle being applied evenly to all items. |
#505
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Last edited by cgjackson222; 06-13-2022 at 07:40 PM. |
#506
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“Ignore” the Bill of Rights? It is what you are proposing. The extremes you propose are tiresome on my side. If you didn’t propose extremes they wouldn’t be treated as such.
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#507
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Plus one. Same people that said you can’t infringe my freedoms of speech have been successfully sued for defamation when they act like jackasses.
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#508
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[QUOTE=cgjackson222;2234011]Dude, you talk in the most extremes for no reason. "Eradicate the Bill of Rights": its tiresome[/QUOTE
Agree. Advance the ball instead of putting forth these hyperbolic statements. |
#509
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[QUOTE=Carter08;2234018]Banning most all common-use arms technology from the last several generations for the next generation is doing exactly that. Ignoring or eradicating the Bill of Rights. Obviously proposing it will make some note this. Your proposition of a 10,000x tax to serve as a ban for non-billionaires is a ban of all guns for 99.9% of the population. This is blatantly a de facto overturn of the 2nd. Don’t propose it if you can’t be called out for it.
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#510
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[QUOTE=G1911;2234021]
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#511
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[QUOTE=Carter08;2234028]
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#512
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[QUOTE=G1911;2234029]That is absolutely what many people in deep blue areas are after because they don’t know better and their voters want it. Propose something better. Those people are not demons. Neither are you. They want change because what we have is severely broken and there are too many mass shootings in this country. Help them do better than trying to eradicate your second amendment rights.
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#513
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[QUOTE=Carter08;2234032]
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Good luck in your quest to seize everything possible. I’m sure it will pay dividends. |
#514
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[QUOTE=G1911;2234034]
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#515
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[QUOTE=Carter08;2234037]You straight up said it’s the goal in 510.
Last edited by G1911; 06-13-2022 at 09:15 PM. |
#516
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[QUOTE=G1911;2234038]I said it’s my quest? Come on man.
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#517
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Quote:
I'm only 3 degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon, for chrissakes. I own a handgun. Not 10, or 20, or 46. My FIL owns over 200. He thinks every time Amazon comes up his driveway, the only reason they didn't rape him is because he carries his gun. Probably reports every interaction as "Using his firearm for a defensive purpose". I am a competitive person who has tried to, if not be the best at whatever he attempts, try to the best of my ability. Baseball, fishing, poker, driving, and father, son, friend. They haven't all been successes, but currently, my gunplay ranks pretty high. It might work it might not. I did what I could. BTW, those that lobby against magazine limitations, claim that the time to swap in a live fire situation and MOST importantly, the added hassle and cost of purchasing extra equipment , are the biggest objections of magazine limitations. 80% of those who are upset about it are "recreational users". Understandably, just as if you went to a bowling alley and the didn't have enough 16lb balls. Pretty Disappointing. 3rd bullet point is slippery slope argument. And finally, by definition, all amendments are up for revue. Part of the old process and all. By declaring that any current ruling represents the majority, is a fallacy., 40% gun owners are out voted by 210,000,000 citizens. Whwt happens next? Billions to convince that you next encounter WILL result in your sexual domination unless you support 50 round magazines.
__________________
"If you ever discover the sneakers for far more shoes in your everyday individual, and also have a wool, will not disregard the going connected with sneakers by Isabel Marant a person." =AcellaGet |
#518
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[QUOTE=Carter08;2234041]Being the goal is so vastly different. Good going
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#519
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[QUOTE=G1911;2234061]It’s not my goal either.
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#520
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Quote:
Quote:
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__________________
_ Successful transactions with: Natswin2019, ParachromBleu, Cmount76, theuclakid, tiger8mush, shammus, jcmtiger, oldjudge, coolshemp, joejo20, Blunder19, ibechillin33, t206kid, helfrich91, Dashcol, philliesfan, alaskapaul3, Natedog, Kris19, frankbmd, tonyo, Baseball Rarities, Thromdog, T2069bk, t206fix, jakebeckleyoldeagleeye, Casey2296, rdeversole, brianp-beme, seablaster, twalk, qed2190, Gorditadogg, LuckyLarry, tlhss, Cory |
#521
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- I did group many guns together because the mechanics are the same. The targeted firearms by anti-gun people are all semi-automatic firearms. One bullet per trigger pull. Simple as that. Magazine capacity is a moot point, as magazines can be changed in a matter of seconds. Again, to target one, you target them all because of the mechanics. There is literally no difference between a 9MM handgun and a 5.56 caliber AR-15. Now, revolvers and bolt action rifles are different, but those aren't targeted by the anti-gun crowd. - I'm saying we need to stop pretending as a society that we can eradicate all crime/poor behavior with legislation. It's hilarious that one thing the majority of both sides of the political spectrum agree on is that they don't trust government, yet I often see people clambering for more laws (AKA bigger government). Again, cocaine/heroine/etc. are illegal, yet run rampant in this country. How? Schools are fun free Zones, yet we have school shootings. How? Laws are for the law-abiding. If we want to truly solve this solution, we'll all discuss what you and I agree should be discussed in the first point. Those are the topics that build the foundation for better, healthier people, and a safer society.
__________________
Need a spreadsheet to help track your set, player run, or collection? Check out Sheets4Collectors on Etsy. https://www.etsy.com/shop/Sheets4Collectors - Hall of Famers Progress: 318/340 (93.53%) - Grover Hartley PC Needs: T207 Anonymous Factory 25 Back, 1914 New York Evening Sun Supplements, 1917 D328 Weil Baking Co., and (possibly) 1917 Merchant's Bakery - Jim Thome PC - Cleveland Indians Franchise Hall of Fame |
#522
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(And, I have many thoughts on the very important issues you mentioned regarding trust in government and illegal drugs, but I'll hold off on veering this thread into even more controversial territory...)
__________________
_ Successful transactions with: Natswin2019, ParachromBleu, Cmount76, theuclakid, tiger8mush, shammus, jcmtiger, oldjudge, coolshemp, joejo20, Blunder19, ibechillin33, t206kid, helfrich91, Dashcol, philliesfan, alaskapaul3, Natedog, Kris19, frankbmd, tonyo, Baseball Rarities, Thromdog, T2069bk, t206fix, jakebeckleyoldeagleeye, Casey2296, rdeversole, brianp-beme, seablaster, twalk, qed2190, Gorditadogg, LuckyLarry, tlhss, Cory |
#523
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- No, because there isn't enough proper education on the topics, and not enough people who care to go beyond what they're spoon fed by the media and politicians. This is why it's so important to denounce the term "assault weapons" because there is no such thing, and it's a propaganda term. - One of my first posts questioned the OP's motives behind starting this thread, as his original post had a huge slant and the discussion is political in nature. Again, in my opinion, you cannot discuss this issue productively and work towards an actual solution without turning the focus to the other areas we've agreed upon. Until we restore decency and healthiness to the majority of society, we will continue to see criminal attempts like school shootings. The only solution in the interim is to fight fire with fire, tear down the "gun free zone" signs, and protect our children with the same level of protection as our politicians, etc.
__________________
Need a spreadsheet to help track your set, player run, or collection? Check out Sheets4Collectors on Etsy. https://www.etsy.com/shop/Sheets4Collectors - Hall of Famers Progress: 318/340 (93.53%) - Grover Hartley PC Needs: T207 Anonymous Factory 25 Back, 1914 New York Evening Sun Supplements, 1917 D328 Weil Baking Co., and (possibly) 1917 Merchant's Bakery - Jim Thome PC - Cleveland Indians Franchise Hall of Fame Last edited by KMayUSA6060; 06-14-2022 at 12:09 PM. |
#524
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I've never owned a gun and am against the proliferation of guns. However, the 2nd Amendment is clear. The 2nd Amendment gives the constitutional right for Americans to own guns. However, the amendment also doesn't prevent reasonable prevention or rules.
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#525
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"Shall not be infringed"
__________________
Need a spreadsheet to help track your set, player run, or collection? Check out Sheets4Collectors on Etsy. https://www.etsy.com/shop/Sheets4Collectors - Hall of Famers Progress: 318/340 (93.53%) - Grover Hartley PC Needs: T207 Anonymous Factory 25 Back, 1914 New York Evening Sun Supplements, 1917 D328 Weil Baking Co., and (possibly) 1917 Merchant's Bakery - Jim Thome PC - Cleveland Indians Franchise Hall of Fame |
#526
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Do you think it allows a citizen to own a nuclear weapon for personal use? As soon as you say no you are infringing.
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#527
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Gun owners will give up all of their nuclear weapons to the gun-grabbers.
The gun grabbers will leave us all the common-use tools of our grandfathers time, and repeal the existing infringements on them. Compromise! |
#528
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Incorrect. "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.
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#529
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Quote:
Incorrect? Are you sure?
__________________
Need a spreadsheet to help track your set, player run, or collection? Check out Sheets4Collectors on Etsy. https://www.etsy.com/shop/Sheets4Collectors - Hall of Famers Progress: 318/340 (93.53%) - Grover Hartley PC Needs: T207 Anonymous Factory 25 Back, 1914 New York Evening Sun Supplements, 1917 D328 Weil Baking Co., and (possibly) 1917 Merchant's Bakery - Jim Thome PC - Cleveland Indians Franchise Hall of Fame |
#530
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This is the "woke" "virtue signaling" insanity we are dealing with up here.
Says we are getting serious about gun crimes but reduces the sentences for those committing gun crimes. Says citizens cannot defend themselves with a gun but the bad guys who do will have their sentences reduced. https://www.facebook.com/CanadaProud...7485935645037/ https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...ous-gun-crimes
__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 Last edited by irv; 06-15-2022 at 09:10 AM. |
#531
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Quote:
The 2 things murderers want most: 1. A more defenseless populous on which to prey. 2. Lighter sentences when/if they are caught/convicted. |
#532
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For Americans wishing to better understand Canadian politics, perhaps they should look beyond Facebook posts from a group describing themselves as "Proud Canadians working to defeat Trudeau" and newspaper opinion pieces.
__________________
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#533
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Same should be said for the rest of the world trying to understand America - don't watch CNN, Fox News, etc.
__________________
Need a spreadsheet to help track your set, player run, or collection? Check out Sheets4Collectors on Etsy. https://www.etsy.com/shop/Sheets4Collectors - Hall of Famers Progress: 318/340 (93.53%) - Grover Hartley PC Needs: T207 Anonymous Factory 25 Back, 1914 New York Evening Sun Supplements, 1917 D328 Weil Baking Co., and (possibly) 1917 Merchant's Bakery - Jim Thome PC - Cleveland Indians Franchise Hall of Fame |
#534
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+1 Absolutely agree, Kyle
__________________
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#535
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Yes. Because, as demonstrated by Supreme Courts upholding regulations on guns, I am correct.
Last edited by drcy; 06-15-2022 at 10:16 AM. |
#536
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Yes. The amendment does not prevent regulations on types of guns and other aspects. The Supreme Courts has upheld various regulations, and Scalia himself spelled out limits. Unless you believe the 2nd amendment allows anyone to own a nuclear weapon or banned bioweapon, you yourself agree. Scalia used the example of a bazooka.
Last edited by drcy; 06-15-2022 at 10:31 AM. |
#537
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What regulations do you want?
__________________
Need a spreadsheet to help track your set, player run, or collection? Check out Sheets4Collectors on Etsy. https://www.etsy.com/shop/Sheets4Collectors - Hall of Famers Progress: 318/340 (93.53%) - Grover Hartley PC Needs: T207 Anonymous Factory 25 Back, 1914 New York Evening Sun Supplements, 1917 D328 Weil Baking Co., and (possibly) 1917 Merchant's Bakery - Jim Thome PC - Cleveland Indians Franchise Hall of Fame |
#538
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That would just be a matter of my personal opinion, which would be no better or worse than anyone else's.
Last edited by drcy; 06-15-2022 at 10:41 AM. |
#539
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Per your previous comment, "reasonable prevention or rules" would also be subjective, so figured I'd ask what you thought was reasonable.
__________________
Need a spreadsheet to help track your set, player run, or collection? Check out Sheets4Collectors on Etsy. https://www.etsy.com/shop/Sheets4Collectors - Hall of Famers Progress: 318/340 (93.53%) - Grover Hartley PC Needs: T207 Anonymous Factory 25 Back, 1914 New York Evening Sun Supplements, 1917 D328 Weil Baking Co., and (possibly) 1917 Merchant's Bakery - Jim Thome PC - Cleveland Indians Franchise Hall of Fame |
#540
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I chose the Toronto Sun because it is basically the last standing media source up here that isn't funded by the Liberals. If you prefer, here is a sugar coated, deflective piece from the funded CBC that might be a little more to your liking? Notice how many times, even though this is a 100% on Trudeau, that they bring up the Conservatives. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lib...code-1.6276568 Mark's opinion was spot on. If you can't see that then I can't help you. Read the T.O. article then tell me Trudeau still cares more about gun crime and not about future votes. Instead, we have a virtue signaler in chief who talks about making streets safer while going soft on criminals.
__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 Last edited by irv; 06-15-2022 at 06:50 PM. |
#541
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Forcing him to sell that to the government for destruction at the pittance they would offer? No, that makes no sense at all. Add in that a huge percentage of guns used for hunting are semi automatic, including other publicly sold M1s and you've done most gun owners a disservice, as well as providing a major setback to wildlife management. |
#542
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While pool cues are readily available, as far as I know the Mk47 is not publicly available. Even if it was it would be subject to the same rules and background checks as a real machine gun. What would have made a big difference would be if even so much as the reporting of mental health issues which the Uvalde shooter apparently had was done in a way that would turn up on a background check. As far as I know nearly all the mass shooters have had issues with mental health and either passed background checks or been abetted by relatives. And nearly all made public statements before acting that made their intentions clear. How to make those red flags into something that will turn up in a background check without falling foul of the first amendment, and a variety of privacy laws and protections for people with problems is another discussion that needs to be had. And one that both sides have even more difficulty approaching. Nobody wants to return to locking people with mental problems away the way we did into the early 80's. (I think, but could be wrong there) But i believe it's also true that getting them actual help is expensive and hard to convince people to pay for. |
#543
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Greg- I'll be serious on this reply to you posting the 2nd Amendment and circling one part of it: A WELL REGULATED MILITIA, BEING NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. This was written when there were no city police, no state troopers, no National Guard! In today's world, do you really think it's necessary for the security of ANY free state (and they're ALL free now) to have a well regulated militia? Seriously? This was written over 240 years ago and is out of step with today's world. Sure gun ownership should not be 'infringed'(we don't even use that word anymore), but NOT EVERYBODY - and THAT's necessary for the security of ALL free states! Of course, this, while an educated opinion, is only one...mine. Fire Away if you must.
__________________
. "A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson “If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente Last edited by clydepepper; 06-19-2022 at 10:44 AM. |
#544
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Quote:
Can you type in normal color and size like everyone else? Do you need to hit the caps lock key every few seconds? The guy who threw a fit that people even had this debate at all also believes his belated thoughts on the actual issue need to be highlighted to stand out from everyone else. I would also advise that you get a calculator and refigure how old the Constitution is. Infringed is also still a normal word today. All of the actual points relating to the issue here have already been addressed by both sides, in the posts you were trying to remove from view with your random pictures. The debate ended. Catch up, or sober up. |
#545
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My $0.02 here:
People on one side tend to forget the words "well regulated" in arguing for unfettered access to any gun at any time. People on the other side tend to forget that there is a basic right to have a firearm and a mechanism for amending the Constitution to rescind that right. For better and worse, that's our system. People on both sides tend to ignore the actual historical basis for the amendment. The men writing the Bill of Rights were leery of standing armies and therefore wanted every citizen to be in the militia, and they wanted everyone in the militia to be armed. If someone was prohibited from participating in the militia, the leaders of the Founders’ generation would not have wanted them to have access to weapons. In fact, the 18th-century regulations that required citizens to participate in the militia also prohibited blacks and Indians from participating as arms-bearing members. Which brings up another basis for the original right: preserving the ability of state-sanctioned fugitive slave patrols to cross state lines while armed. The history of gun regulation, especially open carry, is tinged with racism. Interesting footnote here--the first bans on open carry in Cali were championed by Ronald Reagan and the GOP as a direct effort to stop the Black Panthers from openly carrying guns. The Mulford Act was a 1967 California bill that prohibited public carrying of loaded firearms without a permit. Named after Republican assemblyman Don Mulford, and signed into law by governor of California Ronald Reagan, the bill was crafted with the goal of disarming members of the Black Panther Party who were conducting armed patrols of Oakland neighborhoods. They garnered national attention after Black Panthers members, bearing arms, marched upon the California State Capitol to protest the bill. Yup, that's right: Reagan was for gun control. The historical reasons for gun ownership are not present today but a more pressing one is: potential authoritarian rule. The Nazis passed laws and regulations stripping Jews of the right to have weapons. We all know what happened next. The Soviets quickly banned guns in the USSR. The December decree of the CPC of 1918, "On the surrender of weapons", ordered people to surrender any firearms, swords, bayonets and bombs. The Nazis rounded up and killed millions of defenseless 'undesirables' in their murder camps yet had a terrible time clearing the Warsaw Ghetto when a small armed resistance was mounted. I believe that all minority group members have a moral imperative to arm themselves and become proficient in use of their weapons as a bulwark against the rule of the majority metastasizing into an authoritarian regime that will seek to eradicate what its leaders deem 'undesirables'. I strongly believe that private gun ownership is the best way to prevent the cattle cars from rolling to the death camps: you come for an armed minority populace, you better bring a big supply of body bags. The wannabe fascists know it too. i am a responsible gun owner (decline to state specifics). I've pulled and used my weapon once for self-defense, in a condo complex where I was on the board right after the 1994 earthquake, and was very happy I had it at the time. Just showing it deterred the intruders. Due to the quake and power loss we had to manually open the gate to our underground parking area. Two rough characters from a low-rent apartment complex down the block saw the open gate and muscled past the board president "to look around". Me and two other board members were there and we had our guns. We stepped into the aisle of the garage and showed the weapons. The intruders saw the guns. One nodded and said "cool", and they walked right back out the way they came in. We had no further incursions until the property was red-tagged due to the damage and we all had to leave. I suspect that the two passed word that our complex was not an easy target. I am all for allowing law-abiding citizens to have guns in their homes and at work. I am also all for keeping guns away from crooks, violent and mentally ill people by regulating the acquisition of a gun to screen as many of them out as we can, for making the unregulated sale of non-historical arms illegal for the same reasons, and for making the carrying of a gun as difficult as the acquisition of a driver's license, if not more. Well regulated...You leave your house or work and go into public armed, society has a stronger interest in making sure you aren't a moon bat and know WTF you are doing. I also believe that certain sensitive places, like schools and airports and large gatherings should be gun-free areas if the local governments determine it is in the best interests of their populaces to make it so, and that private businesses have the right to declare weapon-free zones. The 2nd Amendment applies to state regulation, not private. You want to work in my office, leave your piece at home or in your car.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... Last edited by Exhibitman; 06-19-2022 at 08:52 AM. |
#546
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2.) I change fonts to emphasize. 3.) As long as the tread remains open, anyone should be allowed to join - at any time. 4.) As far as my hijacking goes: I have ceased doing so. As I stated in my 'weird' unprompted PM, the humor was designed to 'lighten' the load of a very loaded discussion. I will always believe there's a place for it. 5.) I did not and would now request your advise...especially given your reaction...no offense given or taken.
__________________
. "A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson “If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente |
#547
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__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#548
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#549
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#550
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Strict gun control in Chicago is a flat failure. |
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