Gun ownership poll

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Is anyone suggesting that they do? Do you believe that the Uvalde shooting would have transpired the same way, had the weapon been a billiards cue? How about an Mk47 Striker? To ignore what the weapon is is exactly the kind of "dancing around" that I referenced in my previous post.

The weapon has been discussed as nauseum in this thread. One bullet per trigger pull. That's the weapon - AR, handgun - they're all the same. You can't touch one without touching them all, and you can't touch them all without infringing upon 2nd Amendment rights of US citizens.

You can keep trying to solve the problem by fitting a square peg into a triangular hole, but it's not going to work. There is all sorts of legislation and law out there to prevent stuff that STILL HAPPENS. Drugs, for example. We have a massive drug problem in this country, despite laws that ban those drugs. Drunk Driving, despite laws that make drunk driving illegal. It's been said before, but murder is illegal, yet no matter the weapon, it's still committed - car, knife, rope, plane, firearm, fire, hands, etc.

I'm ready to have the discussion about the threat of Big Pharma, our public education system, the media, our politicians (both sides), our work life balance, our broken homes, the lack of accountability in society anymore, etc. I'm ready for that conversation. Solving those issues, figuring out how to be better people, that's the long term solution. Then, when the inevitable trigger is pulled and one bullet comes out, it'll be at a paper target like 99% of gun owners shoot at. Look at that, the weapon isn't the problem.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I'm ready to have the discussion about the threat of Big Pharma, our public education system, the media, our politicians (both sides), our work life balance, our broken homes, the lack of accountability in society anymore, etc. I'm ready for that conversation. Solving those issues, figuring out how to be better people, that's the long term solution.

I agree that these are conversations worth having.

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

The weapon has been discussed as nauseum in this thread. One bullet per trigger pull. That's the weapon - AR, handgun - they're all the same. You can't touch one without touching them all, and you can't touch them all without infringing upon 2nd Amendment rights of US citizens.

It wasn't ad nauseam for me. You have grouped many different guns into a single category (one bullet per trigger pull) while excluding others. I'm interested to know why you draw the distinction in this way.

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

There is all sorts of legislation and law out there to prevent stuff that STILL HAPPENS. Drugs, for example. We have a massive drug problem in this country, despite laws that ban those drugs. Drunk Driving, despite laws that make drunk driving illegal. It's been said before, but murder is illegal, yet no matter the weapon, it's still committed - car, knife, rope, plane, firearm, fire, hands, etc.

It sounds as if you are saying that the fact that some people break laws means that it's not worth trying to pass new laws. Is that right? Should we not revise drug and drunk driving laws to try and make them less ineffective?

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I agree that these are conversations worth having.



It wasn't ad nauseam for me. You have grouped many different guns into a single category (one bullet per trigger pull) while excluding others. I'm interested to know why you draw the distinction in this way.



It sounds as if you are saying that the fact that some people break laws means that it's not worth trying to pass new laws. Is that right? Should we not revise drug and drunk driving laws to try and make them less ineffective?

- Glad we can agree on something.

- I did group many guns together because the mechanics are the same. The targeted firearms by anti-gun people are all semi-automatic firearms. One bullet per trigger pull. Simple as that. Magazine capacity is a moot point, as magazines can be changed in a matter of seconds. Again, to target one, you target them all because of the mechanics. There is literally no difference between a 9MM handgun and a 5.56 caliber AR-15. Now, revolvers and bolt action rifles are different, but those aren't targeted by the anti-gun crowd.

- I'm saying we need to stop pretending as a society that we can eradicate all crime/poor behavior with legislation. It's hilarious that one thing the majority of both sides of the political spectrum agree on is that they don't trust government, yet I often see people clambering for more laws (AKA bigger government). Again, cocaine/heroine/etc. are illegal, yet run rampant in this country. How? Schools are fun free Zones, yet we have school shootings. How? Laws are for the law-abiding. If we want to truly solve this solution, we'll all discuss what you and I agree should be discussed in the first point. Those are the topics that build the foundation for better, healthier people, and a safer society.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I'm saying we need to stop pretending as a society that we can eradicate all crime/poor behavior with legislation. It's hilarious that one thing the majority of both sides of the political spectrum agree on is that they don't trust government, yet I often see people clambering for more laws (AKA bigger government). Again, cocaine/heroine/etc. are illegal, yet run rampant in this country. How? Schools are fun free Zones, yet we have school shootings. How? Laws are for the law-abiding. If we want to truly solve this solution, we'll all discuss what you and I agree should be discussed in the first point. Those are the topics that build the foundation for better, healthier people, and a safer society.

I appreciate the reply, and I'm starting to understand where you're coming from. In spirit, I agree with much of this. Practically, though, I think there is a huge web of complex problems to disentangle if we're going to get there. Would enough Americans agree on ways to form such a foundation?

(And, I have many thoughts on the very important issues you mentioned regarding trust in government and illegal drugs, but I'll hold off on veering this thread into even more controversial territory...)

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I appreciate the reply, and I'm starting to understand where you're coming from. In spirit, I agree with much of this. Practically, though, I think there is a huge web of complex problems to disentangle if we're going to get there. Would enough Americans agree on ways to form such a foundation?

(And, I have many thoughts on the very important issues you mentioned regarding trust in government and illegal drugs, but I'll hold off on veering this thread into even more controversial territory...)

Responding to the bold...

- No, because there isn't enough proper education on the topics, and not enough people who care to go beyond what they're spoon fed by the media and politicians. This is why it's so important to denounce the term "assault weapons" because there is no such thing, and it's a propaganda term.

- One of my first posts questioned the OP's motives behind starting this thread, as his original post had a huge slant and the discussion is political in nature. Again, in my opinion, you cannot discuss this issue productively and work towards an actual solution without turning the focus to the other areas we've agreed upon. Until we restore decency and healthiness to the majority of society, we will continue to see criminal attempts like school shootings. The only solution in the interim is to fight fire with fire, tear down the "gun free zone" signs, and protect our children with the same level of protection as our politicians, etc.

[drcy]

I've never owned a gun and am against the proliferation of guns. However, the 2nd Amendment is clear. The 2nd Amendment gives the constitutional right for Americans to own guns. However, the amendment also doesn't prevent reasonable prevention or rules.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by drcy

I've never owned a gun and am against the proliferation of guns. However, the 2nd Amendment is clear. The 2nd Amendment gives the constitutional right for Americans to own guns. However, the amendment also doesn't prevent reasonable prevention or rules.

"Shall not be infringed"