Please help settle a FB debate. Was the T206 Wagner EVER made with a Piedmont back?

[53toppscollector]

My biggest issue with the Gretzky Wagner is that the way it is graded is simply not correct. There are tons of T206s available to buy that are clearly hand cut/printers scrap, including all of the Old Mill SL Browns. Everyone knows those cards are printers scrap, they get PSA A or SGC A grades, and they still command an absolute fortune because they are incredibly rare. The Gretzky Wagner should be graded a PSA A, and because of its provenance and story, it would still command an astronomical figure.

Hand cut/trimmed cards should get an A letter grade, because that is what they are, authentic. Numerical grades should be assigned to cards that were in packs and in circulation.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

My biggest issue with the Gretzky Wagner is that the way it is graded is simply not correct. There are tons of T206s available to buy that are clearly hand cut/printers scrap, including all of the Old Mill SL Browns. Everyone knows those cards are printers scrap, they get PSA A or SGC A grades, and they still command an absolute fortune because they are incredibly rare. The Gretzky Wagner should be graded a PSA A, and because of its provenance and story, it would still command an astronomical figure.

Absolutely agree. It would command an astronomical figure today. The problem was that back in 1991, or whenever PSA first slabbed it - professional grading was brand new, and there were a lot of unknowns. There was a lot of speculation that it would only be worth a fraction of the estimate if PSA officially called it altered or only "Authentic", and I think the fears there won out. One grader even admitted that he knew it was trimmed, (hand cut) but he wasn't going to call it that because it would be "bad for the hobby."

It would be interesting to see what PSA would do about that card now if it's owner (Ken Kendrick of the Arizona Diamondbacks...) ever called them on it. The provenance is bulletproof at this point; Mastro got caught admitting on a wire recording that he had indeed cut the card from a sheet. I'm not sure how even PSA today could make a claim with a straight face that it deserves to be in a PSA 8 holder.

[chriskim]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Absolutely agree. It would command an astronomical figure today. The problem was that back in 1991, or whenever PSA first slabbed it - professional grading was brand new, and there were a lot of unknowns. There was a lot of speculation that it would only be worth a fraction of the estimate if PSA officially called it altered or only "Authentic", and I think the fears there won out. One grader even admitted that he knew it was trimmed, (hand cut) but he wasn't going to call it that because it would be "bad for the hobby."

It would be interesting to see what PSA would do about that card now if it's owner (Ken Kendrick of the Arizona Diamondbacks...) ever called them on it. The provenance is bulletproof at this point; Mastro got caught admitting on a wire recording that he had indeed cut the card from a sheet. I'm not sure how even PSA today could make a claim with a straight face that it deserves to be in a PSA 8 holder.

That PSA8 Wagner worth a lot more than Ken paid, so he wouldn't complain to PSA. On the other hand, pretty sure PSA is more than happy to buy that Wagner from Ken at his purchase price.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by chriskim

That PSA8 Wagner worth a lot more than Ken paid, so he wouldn't complain to PSA. On the other hand, pretty sure PSA is more than happy to buy that Wagner from Ken at his purchase price.

I'm not totally certain that Mr. Kendrick doesn't have to worry about money, but it's a fair assumption if nothing else at this point.

Suppose from a collector perspective he at some point agreed it should not be a PSA 8, and requested it be re-holdered as Authentic or AA? Would PSA honor that request?

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I'm not totally certain that Mr. Kendrick doesn't have to worry about money, but it's a fair assumption if nothing else at this point.

Suppose from a collector perspective he at some point agreed it should not be a PSA 8, and requested it be re-holdered as Authentic or AA? Would PSA honor that request?

I don't see why not, but at that point it's regrading the card, not just reholdering, so the grading fee would be $10,000. Hopefully for that price they'd evaluate it carefully enough to detect the trimming that we're all already aware of.

[Wite3]

It is trimmed...for sure...it would not grade today. This being graded was more a publicity stunt for PSA and the owners.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by chriskim

That PSA8 Wagner worth a lot more than Ken paid, so he wouldn't complain to PSA. On the other hand, pretty sure PSA is more than happy to buy that Wagner from Ken at his purchase price.

any of us would be happy to buy that Wagner from ken at his purchase price.

and happily display it in their collection