Gun ownership poll

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

We are certainly polarized these days, but I think abortion always has been and will be a polarizing issue due to its nature, whether or not society as a whole is more or less polarized.

I mostly agree, although it's interesting to compare the US on this issue to countries like El Salvador and Finland, where there is less polarization on the issue (and very different policies). Of course, religion is the elephant in the room, but I don't want to go there!

[jingram058]

Look here, I had a Top Secret clearance in the Navy. I cannot talk about it to any degree, but I know what the Intel community as a whole collects and analyzes. I know how they do it. It really isn't hard to collect and analyze millions upon millions of pieces of info from millions of people, and analyze it. All I am saying is pass that info to law enforcement before, not after. You can stop the vast majority of these events in their tracks. It's that simple. First you have to want to. The lobby and the money make it such that this will go on and on.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Look here, I had a Top Secret clearance in the Navy. I cannot talk about it to any degree, but I know what the Intel community as a whole collects and analyzes. I know how they do it. It really isn't hard to collect and analyze millions upon millions of pieces of info from millions of people, and analyze it. All I am saying is pass that info to law enforcement before, not after. You can stop the vast majority of these events in their tracks. It's that simple. First you have to want to. The lobby and the money make it such that this will go on and on.

It’s my Net54 refrain, but an appeal to authority is not a logical argument. It is not personal, but ‘look here I know’ is not a rational argument. I’m glad it’s so easy though and we can stop tragedies by conducting this constant surveillance and deep checks on half of America (even though they already are subject to background checks). Have the Dems put it into a bill with the specifics of what is to be covered (still vague) now that BATFE is missing in the existing check.

There’s no evidence that background checks work or actually stop shooters, and significant evidence that they don’t. Do we really believe that a person who wants to shoot up a school will just give up if denied by the local gun store, and follow the law?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Look here, I had a Top Secret clearance in the Navy. I cannot talk about it to any degree, but I know what the Intel community as a whole collects and analyzes. I know how they do it. It really isn't hard to collect and analyze millions upon millions of pieces of info from millions of people, and analyze it. All I am saying is pass that info to law enforcement before, not after. You can stop the vast majority of these events in their tracks. It's that simple. First you have to want to. The lobby and the money make it such that this will go on and on.

What "lobby" is stopping the "intel community" from sharing information about forthcoming crimes with law enforcement?

[Steve D]

My take on it is this:

Why do we not have security at our schools?

We have hardened our airports; TSA checkpoints.

We have armed security at federal buildings/courthouses; You have to go through a metal detector to get in.

Why do we continue to have schools with absolutely no security? From what I've read and heard, the Uvalde school district has eight schools, yet they have only four security personnel; and no one was at the elementary school the day of the shooting!

From all the information we have so far, the punk crashed his vehicle next to the school. He then shot at two people at a funeral home, which is across the street from where he crashed his vehicle, and the school. Personnel in the school heard the gunshots! So, why was a door left open for the perp to go in?

I'm not saying there should be metal detectors at schools; maybe there should be.....maybe not. There does, however, at an absolute minimum, need to be a single point-of-entry for schools, for regular people to go through! There needs to be armed security personnel at these entry points!

In most of these school shootings, the common thread is a complete lack of security, allowing bad actors to get in. This is what needs to stop!

Why do we not protect our children as well as we protect courtrooms and airplanes?

To answer the OP's question, I am a gun owner. I own a few pistols (both semi-auto and revolver), but no rifles.

Steve

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Steve D

So, why was a door left open for the perp to go in?

A teacher purposely propped open that particular door and then wedged it with something to keep it open, that door is automatically locked from the outside at all times. I imagine that is very common at schools so the teachers can take a quick smoke or get on their phones for a little bit. ETA, I should have known better, now the "official line" is that a teacher slammed it closed but it but the perp was still able to enter through the door anyway.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I keep asking the same question. As I recall after Sandy Hook there was a big push to step up security in schools. What happened?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I keep asking the same question. As I recall after Sandy Hook there was a big push to step up security in schools. What happened?

There was no interest in any proposal besides even more restrictions on the 2nd.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

There was no interest in any proposal besides even more restrictions on the 2nd.

Move a few police officers from traffic details where you have two officers supervising one minor repair to guarding schools?

[irv]

With our different culture and guns laws up here there is no way I can really relate to the guns issues that are being discussed in this thread but after I watched this one just recently, I wondered how accurate it is?


https://www.tiktok.com/@knowledgeequ...20276015877381

[G1911]

Originally Posted by irv

With our different culture and guns laws up here there is no way I can really relate to the guns issues that are being discussed in this thread but after I watched this one just recently, I wondered how accurate it is?


https://www.tiktok.com/@knowledgeequ...20276015877381

Pretty accurate, the exacts change year to year of course, but the vast majority of ‘gun deaths’ are suicides every year. After you take out those, you take out people shot and killed by the police (who of course are not regulated by gun restrictions), and rightful self defense shootings (most self defense uses of a firearm don’t result in a corpse or even a shooting, most of the time the gun doesn’t need to be discharged to neutralize the threat) you’re left with a very small number. And of that small number, almost all of them are handguns. The most commonly used cartridge in a murder is .22lr, the weakest commonly available round and the least reliable. On the macro level, it is incredibly rare for someone to be killed with a ‘scary rifle’ like an AR or an AK. Last I checked a few years ago, the FBI statistics reveal a person is more likely to be murdered with a hammer than with a rifle with a pistol grip and detachable magazine.

Personally, the framing of the debate reveals the political nature. If the purpose was humanitarian, we would look at murders, not ‘gun deaths’. The weapon used does not make a murder more or less tragic, but we act like it does because nobody politically cares about hammers or kitchen knives. That doesn’t score points for their side.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Steve D

My take on it is this:

Why do we not have security at our schools?

We have hardened our airports; TSA checkpoints.

We have armed security at federal buildings/courthouses; You have to go through a metal detector to get in.

Why do we continue to have schools with absolutely no security? From what I've read and heard, the Uvalde school district has eight schools, yet they have only four security personnel; and no one was at the elementary school the day of the shooting!

From all the information we have so far, the punk crashed his vehicle next to the school. He then shot at two people at a funeral home, which is across the street from where he crashed his vehicle, and the school. Personnel in the school heard the gunshots! So, why was a door left open for the perp to go in?

I'm not saying there should be metal detectors at schools; maybe there should be.....maybe not. There does, however, at an absolute minimum, need to be a single point-of-entry for schools, for regular people to go through! There needs to be armed security personnel at these entry points!

In most of these school shootings, the common thread is a complete lack of security, allowing bad actors to get in. This is what needs to stop!

Why do we not protect our children as well as we protect courtrooms and airplanes?

To answer the OP's question, I am a gun owner. I own a few pistols (both semi-auto and revolver), but no rifles.

Steve

Our district can't pass levies to keep bus routes, buy textbooks, or pay staff. Where is the money going to come from to put TSA-like protections in every building?

[Peter_Spaeth]

So Bob, is a pro-life individual being a hypocrite if he or she signs up for military or police service knowing that could involve the taking of a human life?

Personally I see no inconsistency between being pro-life and supporting the appropriate (and hopefully very limited) use of the death penalty.

[G1911]

A person who is against abortion has determined that a fetus is a life, that that life is human, and that it is thus wrong to murder this innocent life.

A person who is for the death penalty thinks that some particularly vile crimes should include death as a possible punishment, after trial and conviction for said crime.

I don't see any contradiction between these viewpoints. The argument that it is a contradiction ignores the factor of guilt entirely.

[BobC]

[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;2229946]So Bob, is a pro-life individual being a hypocrite if he or she signs up for military or police service knowing that could involve the taking of a human life?

Personally I see no inconsistency between being pro-life and supporting the appropriate (and hopefully very limited) use of the death penalty.[/QUOT

Go ask a true Amish person, or maybe you could have asked Muhammad Ali when he was still with us, if they are/were hypocrites. Or how about having asked someone like Desmond Doss what his thoughts would have been as well, when he was still with us, as far as someone being a hypocrite for being a pro-life, anti-war person.

It would seem to me that if someone is saying they are pro-something, there shouldn't be any exceptions, or do you disagree Peter? For example, if I tell you I'm a dyed-in-the-wool vegetarian/vegan, but on my birthdays and maybe a special holiday or two every year I cheat and have a burger, then I'm really not a true vegetarian/vegan after all, am I? And please don't give me some crap answer that I'm allowed to veer every once and a while and still maintain I'm a vegetarian/vegan. I either am or I am not. Trying to make minor exceptions to make myself happy or feel good about myself is simply lying to myself then, period!

And one would think the same could be said for something like being pro-life. Saying to oneself that they are pro-life, but then rationalizing and making exceptions for the death penalty in certain instances, or allowing for abortions if the Mother's life is at stake, and so on, are simply drawing different lines in the sand as to where a certain individual is comfortable with how they may feel. That is just rationalizing their position, but at the same time trying to make it look and sound like they are something they really may not be. In this case, truly pro-life. In other words they are lying to others, and especially themselves. The sad truth is that probably a vast majority of the people in this world say and live this this kind of crap day in and day out, just to make themselves feel good and tell themselves what a truly good person they are, and rationalize their feelings to better fit in with whatever group they want to position themselves with. And I'm not just talking about pro-life or pro-abortion, or pro-gun or anti-gun, questions and issues.

In the end, many people are mostly lying to themselves about a myriad of things, but then complicating life even further by politicizing such thoughts and feelings and trying to project (force) them onto others. They are basically telling others they have to think like they do, or they are wrong and possibly should be arrested and punished as such for not believing exactly as they believe in many cases.

I don't know about you, but lying to oneself to rationalize one's feelings and thoughts seems like the ultimate form of hypocrisy to me.